Obama OR Mcain
Go_Hillary_Clinton said 06/03, 07:48 PM
Who Would you Vote for?
The un-experienced or the over-experience?
Even though im a democrat i would have to say McCain.
DonkeyDude said 06/04, 01:36 AM
I fail to see how this is the proper subject of a debate.
That said, I find it funny that you, as a Clinton supporter, would throw your support toward McCain -- especially on the basis of experience.
Clinton's policies, foreign and domestic alike, are virtually identical relative to those of McCain. So if you believe in Clinton's stances on the issues, you should vote Obama.
As for experience, it is hard to see how you could find experience that valuable if you are a Clinton supporter. Why didn't you support Biden, Richardson or Dodd? Clinton does not have much relevant experience. Being First Lady does not count (Would you say Laura Bush is now qualified to be president?). Further, as Obama is fond of noting, experience does not a great leader make. Look at Cheney and Rumsfeld. And in that sense, McCain himself does not have any experience in the executive branch.
The real issue here is this: What are the candidate's policy objectives, and who is able to achieve those objectives?
In the Dem-controlled Congress, Obama is more likely to push his agenda through -- an agenda you presumably agree with, as a Clinton supporter.
Go_Hillary_Clinton said 06/04, 07:56 AM
I undersatnd that and its true but you have to look at some of there policies and decide which won is better. Like and example do we think that obama can control the war. I think he cant. Can McCain, I think he can.
Im trying to say just because i support Hillary doesnt mean that i should support Barack.
DonkeyDude said 06/04, 01:23 PM
You say we have to "look at some of [their] policies and decide which [one] is better."
OK, you tell me: on which issues do you agree with McCain over Obama?
With respect to the war in Iraq, Clinton and Obama have almost identical plans to withdraw troops very rapidly. On the other end of the spectrum, McCain is all about advancing the war full-steam. As a matter of fact, Obama's stated position on Iraq is slightly closer to McCain's than Clinton's is, because Obama has openly acknowledged that we might need to have a small non-combatant presence there for some time. So how, as a Clinton supporter, do you find McCain's stance on Iraq preferable to Obama's?
Your argument does not make any sense, and I suspect (as youngdem pointed out below) that your sentiment against Obama is actually rooted in bitterness over your candidate losing. Get over it and realize that Obama is virtually identical to Hillary. McCain is similar to Bush for the purpose of this discussion. Which do you honestly prefer?
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McCain can control the war? You do know that Obama's and Clinton's plans on withdrawal were very similar. I believe that you're looking past key stances and basing your support on emotions, this campaign was long and tough, but we can't have negative feelings against the other candidate. Especially following those feelings up with voting for someone who advocates against almost everything Clinton or Obama believe.
theyoungdem | 06/04/08
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For all the Clintonistas making the "experience" argument as a key reason for supporting Clinton (vs Obama), it's virtually impossible to turn around and support Obama (vs McCain). The point that McCain is better situated to deal with the war has everything to do with the fact that he actually has REAL experience dealing with military matters, both IN UNIFORM and AS A SENATOR. While Obama and Hillary are closer on positions on many "issues", Obama's lack of experience is a non-starter for many people who have supported Hillary (like myself). Experience is key. This is no time for an internship in the White House. Now Hillary is on the way out, I have to agree with McCain in November. While Hillary and BH Obama have similar Iraq plans, I believe that Hillary would have executed the plan with better attachment to reason and the facts on the ground. Hillary is a realist. Obama is an idealist. McCain is closer to Hillary than Obama in such matters.
AmericanMan | 06/04/08
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I find this conversation Interesting because people have asked me this all the time and im an independent and i say McCain. He is the best person I think for office right now. Also, GHC i find your debates interesting becuase you fight for what you Believe. I also find that comment from Donkey Dude offensive about the Youngdem because young people have played a big role in this campaign.
Debate-Fighter | 06/04/08
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I'm unsure why DD agreeing with Youngdem is in any way offensive, or how GHC's exceptionally limited arguments are anything other than laughable.
Tickers | 06/04/08
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At least He is bringing up debates that people can debate about.
Debate-Fighter | 06/04/08
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Many people vote not just on the platform, but also the person, I'll admit I've crossed party lines (locally) while voting because the personality of the canidate i agreed w/ (platform-wise) wasn't what i wanted. a lot of people would rather vote for a canidate w/ well known stances, convictions, and history rather than a dark horse, because they feel more confident of that persons ability to govern in general, even if their particular platform isn't aligned w/ their own.
MorgMcA | 06/04/08
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Really? GHC makes the claim that the policies of McCain are better than the policies of Obama, but since Obama and Clinton share largely the same ground in terms of policy then the logic follows that McCain's policies are better than Clinton's, which makes you wonder what GHC was doing supporting Clinton in the first place.
Tickers | 06/05/08
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That's right tickers. If we were to make this mathematic...A = Obama. B= Hillary. C= McCain. A = B, A < C (according to GHC), then B < C. Man high school math...good times, I graduated last weekend , btw. So technically now I'm a college kid, not as young as before, lol.
theyoungdem | 06/05/08
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yeah, GHC, makes a poor explanation of her claim, but if you look at the only specific "vote determinant" (if that's even a word) that she mentions, she talks about experience, a non-platform issue.
MorgMcA | 06/05/08
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oh, congrats youngdem, perhaps you'll now change your name to notsoyoungdem
MorgMcA | 06/05/08
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Its McCain. Most Americans want the military to finish what we started in Iraq.
dirtythoughts | 06/05/08
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umm, you're kinda missing the point DT, or at least the targeted audience.
MorgMcA | 06/05/08
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Morg - GHC's second (and badly spelled) argument is that we have to 'look at some of there policies and decide which won is better.' So we are challenged to consider the platform issues, and for GHC the answer is McCain over Obama, which means the very same comparison must logically have led to McCain over Clinton.
Tickers | 06/05/08
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lol I don't think I can change my name, it grew on me. Also DT which statistic did you use to say, "Most Americans want the military to finish what we started in Iraq" Though we're not debating that now.
theyoungdem | 06/05/08
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I believe the only chance obama has of winning the election would be if Clinton is on the ticket as the vice-president The long campaign has polarised voters, to an extent that Clinton supporters would rather vote McCain over Obama and likewise if Clinton would be the nominee. Generally when parties are divided they struggle to win elections, including in worldwide politics not just the USA Also McCain being quite a liberal Republican can easily pick up democrat votes compared to Democrats trying to gain conservative republicans, who woudl rather see the more liberal McCain than the Dems in the white house
Conservative Way Forward | 06/05/08
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I think paragraph 3 is supposed to read "clinton's policies are virtually identical to Obama's". Also I would love to see what McCain is capable of doing while working with a dem congress. Granted he doesn't have ole Joe to reach across the aisle to, but he still has alot of experience working with both parties in congress.
MorgMcA | 06/04/08
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