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Hadrian vs Scintallus

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All adults should have to do a daily pledge of allegiance...to their spouse.

Hadrian said 06/10, 02:21 AM
It's time love, honor and obey time folks!

All adults should be forced to assemble everyday in a public space and together recite their sacred marriage vows (Either the one's they have already made or the one's they plan to make).

Gay people will have the choice of pretending to be heterosexual, or to remain silent and be exposed to the community prejudice against their chosen lifestyle.

Marriage, like our country, was, after all, founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Holy matrimony is under attack from the gays it seems. We all need to take a stand -- stand, that is, and pledge allegiance to our spouse!

Scintallus said 06/10, 09:29 AM
This is inpractical and unnecessary on so many different levels.

How are you going to 'force' them to assemble? Under armed guard? And waste police manpower in getting sleepy suburban families to march to the nearest parade ground to recite their vows?

And even if you do manage to get them todo it, simply reciting such a pledge does not gurantee allegiance or faithfulness to their partner.

They will begin to view it as a chore, and it may even be a factor in ruining relationships before they begin i.e. I don't want to marry her because otherwise we have to get up early every morning and recite those bloody marriage vows over and over.

If a couple are truly happy together, they don't need to recite marriage vows daily to prove it.

And how will the targeted gay people pretend to be heterosexual during these excercises? If all the people at the parade ground are married and two guys turn up together without their wives, are they supposed to just grab one and run?

If not, you're simply increasing their exposure to the community, when they would rather be left alone to live their lives.

Hadrian said 06/11, 07:56 AM
A daily pledge of allegiance is done in our schools. If children can manage it, surely adults can as well.

Impressionable children are asked to affirm every day that we are a nation under god, and hear their teacher and classmates say that it is so.

In the public schools, a young child is going to be asked every morning to stand up, put her hand over her heart, and say "your father is wrong". So says an atheist dad.

Sure, a child could resist the pressure from peers and authority figures to conform, but they will suffer by being singled out in a society prejudiced against atheists.

If kids have to face that, so should adults.

Replace "adults" with "children" and "gay" with "atheist" and I think your arguments may still pertain.

In other-words, you seem to be against both marriage and patriotism it seems. Shame on you sir. Shame.

Scintallus said 06/26, 01:03 PM
Do you honestly believe that the terms 'child' and 'adult', 'gay' and 'atheist' are interchangeable and thus relevant in this debate?

Yes, children are made to salute the flag, recite the plege and all that jazz.

And yes, at such an impressionable age, this allows their patriotism to develop. But once they get a little older, can you honestly tell me, that all teenagers feel a surge of love for America the Beautiful whenever they recite the pledge in their schoolyard on a misty Monday morning?

I'm not sure if you already know this, but adults are not older children.

They have different priorities, responsibilities, and behavourial patterns.

Having young children learn to be loyal to their country in school is one thing.

Making grown men and women march into a parade ground, salute each other and swear loyalty is another.

I am neither against marriage or patriotism, and what you are proposing isn't going to do anything for either.

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I am continually astounded at how many people don't get you, Hadrian. I think you're brilliant.

DonkeyDude | 06/11/08

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It's time to love, honor and obey folks! Let's make sure children come to view patriotism as a chore, as Scintallus observes will happen with adults required to pledge allegiance to their spouse. If a country is truly happy together, they don't need to wear flag label pins daily to prove it...

Hadrian | 06/11/08

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I am partially supporting this, in the sense that if it reduces the amount of broken homes then it can be nothing but a good idea. However the issue of homosexuality is completely irrelevant in this issue, as surely a gay couple who are faithful to each other is as legitmate as a hetrosexual couple who remain faithful.

Miral150 | 06/11/08

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Hadrian, I hope you've voted on some of my debates.. we talk about a lot of the same things.

DonkeyDude | 06/11/08

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Hadrian is entertaining for sure, but "brilliant", DD?! Einstein was brilliant. Jackson Pollock, Hemingway, Edison -- those guys were brilliant. Even Mike Nedsmith of the Monkees fame's mother was far more brilliant than Hadrian; she invented White-Out. Hadrian's made some funny comments.

IamFry | 06/11/08

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I'm brillant at people not getting me. Even I don't get me. Oh - and Ms. Monkee made a monkey out of me, that's for sure. White-Out has completely messed up my computer screen!

Hadrian | 06/12/08

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A pledge of marital allegiance may be nice and remind both people of their responsibilities as spouses, but it'd be impossible to enforce people to do it, and forcing people to do it insults people's intelligence because it tells them they must do this or they are not truly dedicated spouses. The pledge of allegiance in schools is forced on children by teachers, but even that makes no sense; children have no idea what it is they are saying, they have no idea of the significance of it. Once they do know what it is about, they don't have to say it anymore. If we're going to be talking about forcing a pledge of allegiance, let's come to the conclusion that all forced pledges (whether in the home or at school) are pointless since the coercion involved renders the meaning of the pledge useless.

EatMoreBread | 06/12/08

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The purpose of wearing a wedding band/ring was among other things, to remind you of your commitment to your spouse. People continue to cheat wearing it, they don't even take it off. making such a pledge will be such a drill that a lot of people will get used to and go back to their old ways. Its that same attitude we have on God. Every Sunday we assemble in church and pledge our obedience to him, and then we leave every of the six days doing the opposite. Loyalty to your spouse has to be a personal thing. The think you chose to do. And if you cannot be loyal, you must be allowed to leave your spouse or your spouse to leave you. Its legal. This notion that marriages should not be broken is nonsense. Millions of people get married to strangers that they discover when already in marriage that in fact they are not the right match for them. What should they do, make a pledge and stay? No, they must just leave. I also think that people cheat not only by actions but by their thoughts. How are you going to control that with a pledge. Saying the same thing everyday doesn't guarantee that you will abide by what it. As for the intentions of this idea against gays, I think that will be the reason you lose this debate Hadrian.

POST | 06/13/08

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READ: we live every of the six days doing the opposite.

POST | 06/13/08

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This idea seems pointless and offensive. Firstly let me tackle the homophobia issue, gay people can be just as faithful, if not more so that hetrosexuals - they after all have to face all kinds off abuse just to declare their love. Secondly what a meaningless activitiy, if you really to love your spouse then it should show in your lifestyle without wasting how ever minuites long in the day declaring alligence. and if you don't love you spouse then you must be lying so whats stopping you saying the alligence when you don't mean it? Not sure about you, your idea of romance may be declaring your alligence but mine would sooner be giving him a kiss, a hug and telling him that I love him.

Stee_theliberal | 06/17/08

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The comment about him being against marriage and patriotism is daft, firstly this marriage alligence is nothing to do with patriotism and secondly you are clearly more against marriage as you are against homosexual marriage!

Stee_theliberal | 06/17/08

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Actually, a daily pledge of allegiance is not done in many, possibly most, public schools anymore.

USA Pit Bull 63 | 06/24/08

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Hadrian, you are a clever satirist. The fact that we force children to salute the flag in such a specific, religious way is sad really. I have always thought a moment of silence while kids think about what the flag means to them would be a more appropriate way for public schoolchildren to start their days. And I think something similar can be said for how we reflect on our spouses. Forced obeisance takes its toll on those of us with rogue tendencies.

thurgood | 06/24/08

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