Gemma won the Face Off.
Liberty
Face Offs: 8
Wins: 2
Losses: 5
Ties: 1
Spokane, WA
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2
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Liberty
Face Offs: 1
Wins: 1
Losses: 0
Ties: 0
No City, XX
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4
Votes

Democracy is not working for America, and our system of government needs fundamental changes or our nation will continue to decline.


It is time for our nation's system of government to evolve. Our nation's problems are not rooted in who's in power, but in how that power is achieved, maintained, and executed.

Two parties counterbalance each other, hamstringing too much progress in either direction towards the left or the right. Consider our present state of affairs. We are mired in a war that history will most likely regard as "inconclusive" if and when the democrats roll in to take the Presidency. Likewise, democrats pull strings over various issues like spending for the war or waterboarding, and liberal journalists are all over the war-zone crying foul because war is ugly. Do I support the war? Indeed, I do not. My point is that it might have worked if not for our two party system preventing any one party from achieving too much progress.

The judicial, legisltative, and executive branches of government likewise pull against each other so that no unity of purpose or vision can ever be achieved. Concieved by colonists paranoid about the consolidation of too much power, this division of power is bureacratic and costly with its system of checks and balances. We need a more efficient system.


Jonah,

Understand your frustration but, what you complain about is exactly what our forefathers envisioned...not stagnation but, opinions that differed and in return gave way to argument/compromise. What has happened is that one party has tried to achieve power over the other. Again, that's what is going to happen. Whether we have a Dictatorship, Oligarchy, or Republic mans temperment will be the same; power over weakness. My suggestion is that you look at history and review what nations and ideas have endured. Then you'll see where you're headed. I believe you'll find that free open socities have not existed until now and we are the testtube. An efficient system is what Hiler wanted and what his followers wanted (not necessarilly a bad idea), however, as efficient as it could have been ants unlike humans cannot be equal and cannot make up their own minds. As bad as our system appears it can work and does, not as swift or efficient as some would like but, in it's own time. In the future because of technology and the Internet man actually will begin to get closer (harmony), and at the same time further apart (distance), not in spite of our flaws but, because of them.


Our forefathers are gone, and so is the world in which they lived. We need to evolve. Picking up a strand of your argument-civilizations that have endured have changed with the passage of time. Look at China--from monarchies, to feudalism, to communism, that is one civilization that has managed to evolve. Though communism might be diametrically opposed to our ideals, the Chinese are very pragmatic;they use what works. Our nation is not even as old as one of their dynasties, and if we are going to endure, as they have, then we are going to have to evolve, as they have.
There is no reason to assume that we cannot have a more efficient system of government and not be free. You also mention Hitler's vision of government. I agree, whatever one can say was wrong with it, no one can argue against the fact that it was very efficient. A democratically determined charismatic dictatorship might be one way this country could go. Consolodation of power, monitored by a free media, and held accountable via the election process? No more thousands of dollars and man hours just to get a bill to the senate. Im not saying that this IS the answer; we do need to start looking for one though.


OK will repeat: I disagree on this: Though China has evolved, it has the same acceptance by it's people of what they had always had. Rule by the few over the many. When a society or people relinquishes the individual importance to importance or will of the whole, individualism of thought and action is lost. In the saddest example of this in recent times: New Orleans poor who had been slaves to man in their earliest years became slaves to govn't and the handouts that govn't gave to keep them living. Without the govn't help they were lost and helpless and yes the govn't failed them but, the govn't never should made them slaves again. They became poster children for racism at it's worse. There is too much greed, power, and politics in govn't today. Term limits, no lobbyists, or special interest groups and, no frivalous lawsuits...we need to take the govn't back to what our forefathers envisioned it to be: of the people, by the people, and for the people (Not Just THEM we voted in).


So...while we both want change, you want change to come through the established system; I say we need to build another system. America buys whatever folks are managing to sell, and it changes with the winds. A Texas cowboy who likes to shoot em up here, a motivational visionary there, maybe the terminator some day... Its all about the commercials. Americans at large have no sales resistance. I had high hopes that the information age would help our faltering public education system create young people who are better informed and motivated to participate in our democracy, and they do tend to know more now than pre-Internet... about Jaylo's dating history, cheat codes for their newest video games, stats for their sports idols, Brittney's most recent breakdown. Participation in our democracy is incidental, motivated by glitz and pizzazz. Perhaps it should be compulorsy, necessary to obtain and maintain a driver's license. We need to change, make fundamental changes to the way things are, and the power brokers are as a self-perpetuating cult that is resistant to the drastic changes necessary to propel America to prosperity in the 21st century and beyond.


Now you've hit on it. It's loss of values and focus on meaning. Family destruction and abortion used as birth control are two examples of where we have come from. Nikita Kruschev once said: "We will destroy you from within", it is exactly because of our freedoms that we have taken the road we are on. No-one can dictate morality but, our values from the beginnig were based on Judeo/Christian values. Our laws, our Constitution, were drawn up with Judeo/Christian guidelines. When we deny this as we have for the last twenty years then, we are going to continue to go down the road w/o direction, vision or hope. It's not necessarilly the destruction of our beliefs but, the destruction of the things that hold those beliefs that has hurt us. Democracy lives in it's people and it the framework that holds those people valuable. We no longer have a youth that really believes this. They have been compromised by, divorce, money, loss of family structure and, the values that go with that. My generation is the one that let this happen because our eyes were on the prize and not the way we got the prize.

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Capitol

So, is what you're saying here something like 'our electoral system is bad because it doesn't allow dictators to decide what the country does', or 'the 2-party system is bad because it stops things from being decided' or 'journalists are bad and ignorant about what war is and their right to free speech should be removed' or 'the democrats are horrible excuses for human beings'? I'm having trouble understanding your overall point here. If you're pushing for either a totalitarian America or some sort of conservative dictator though, good luck stopping a full-out rebellion should this ever come to pass.

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Liberty

Jonah, I disagree on this: Though China has evolved as you say, it has maintained the same type of control... A few control over the many. Look at what happened in New Orleans so sad yes, but sadder is that the poor of NO were tied to an old system of the govn't taking care of them and they traded their original slavery of the south for slavery to the govn't. What needs to change is how we look at what we can do w/ what we've got. The system our forefathers devised is one that if used properly would work as all the items are there for self-government for and by all the people. We have evolved that idea and vision into one that is being compromised by greed and power and, politics. All Senate and House members should serve one term. President the same, but not concurrently. No lobbyists, no special interest groups, no earmarks...no frivalous lawsuits....we can do it...vote them all out and get some that will change our govn't..back to what is was originally.

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Liberty

I dont think you meant to step out of the ring, Gemma. This space here is supposed to be for the peanut gallery/ bystanders.

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Liberty

Appreciate Jonah but, when I came in last night to reply to your rebuttal the page was not there on the site to do so.

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Peace

Democracy is quote "the best of the worst governments". Since we don't have anything better, than i think it's the best thing we've got. I agree, democracy is flawed, and inefficient. it takes literally years to get something done, however. When that one thing is finally done, usually its' been looked over by so many people (executive, legislative, and judiciary branches) that it is right. When something is done in a kingdom or dictatorships, it doesn't get the consent of the representatives of the people. It doesn't get the review of the judicial system to make sure that it follows the constitution. Monarchies are faster and more efficient but our values as humans stay strong with democracies. The founding fathers also created this systems so that it can evolve over time. That is why congress can change to constitution but it needs a majority. You say we need to evolve but into wat? we have nothing better to evolve into.

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