Obama has no meaningful connection with Black America and is simply using his skin color as a tool to garner support from the Black community.
GenialFascist said 06/28, 06:49 PM
Obama's father was Kenyan and his mother was white. Neither able to share experiences of life as a black person living in "white America." After being abandoned by, first his father, and then his mother he was raised by his white grandparents. While growning up he lived in Indonesia and then Hawaii. Neither being areas where blacks lived in anything less than an equal status with all other races. He attended one of the finest private schools in Hawaii and then went on to graduate from Columbia. He and his wife own a two-million dollar home in the most affluent neighborhood in Chicago. His history, upbringing, and education are totally removed from any semblance of the classic "American Black Experience." Yet - the black population rises in unity supporting Obama as one of their own. Their belief that he is "one of their own" is misguided and not founded on a shred of his actual life experience but purely based on the pigment of his skin. Black America is being "bamboozled" and "hoodwinked" into following a POLITICIAN whose socialist policies will hurt them as much as Americans of all the other colors.
DonkeyDude said 06/28, 09:17 PM
Your assertion is essentially that since Obama did not grow up "poor enough," he is not really black. I know you also stated that he did not grow up in areas where blacks have "anything less than equal status with all other races," in reference to Hawaii and Kenya, but that assertion is total bullshit. Unless you've lived both places for a substantial amount of time, you cannot claim to know that. My substantial experience with Southeast Asians/Pacific Islanders confirms that racial hierarchies exist, and, as always, blacks are at the bottom.
Implicit in your argument, therefore, is the notion that the black identity is founded in large part on living in poverty. This is unfortunate, and appropriate for someone with your chosen moniker.
Unless you're black, which you are clearly not, you cannot purport to know what the "black experience" is - and you certainly cannot claim to understand the essence of the black identity better than the overwhelming majority of black Americans who embrace Obama.
And, at the end of the day, Obama's skin color (if he's elected) will have a profound impact on the black American experience. For that reason alone, black support for Obama is justified.
GenialFascist said 06/29, 01:42 AM
No. My assertion has nothing to do with Obama's financial situation as he "grew up." My assertion is that nothing in his background ties him to the American Black culture.
Having retired from a Naval career I have lived in Hawaii and lived and traveled extensively throughout the Pacific.
Obama has no "Black identity" other than what he has fostered throughout his political career to meet his needs. He was raised in a white household. Educated in a predominantly white liberal environment.
My assertion is that he is using the Black community as a tool to achieve his goal of political success. His affiliation with the Trinity Church is a prime example of his joining a Black assembly to advance his credibility. He turned his back on the church as soon as it fit his needs.
At the end of the day it'll be a sad commentary on the country's Black community if they vote for Obama for the sole reason that his skin color matches theirs. No examination of his policies - socialized medical care, higher taxes for EVERYONE, misguided energy policy, weakened defense, on and on. It's a poor argument that Black support is justified solely on the pigment of his skin.
DonkeyDude said 06/30, 10:51 PM
1) Obama comes from a mixed racial background, and he was raised in a variety of diverse settings and cultures. He is dark-skinned and has a "funny name." For that reason alone he has a "meaningful connection to Black America" because his presidency would represent a wild demographic shift. In that sense, he has a meaningful connection with Mexican Americans, women, atheists, blacks and Jews alike, to the extent that he is challenging a symbolic status quo. So I disagree that he has no meaningful connection with Black America.
2) I also reiterate that one does not have to grow up in a black neighborhood with an all-black family to be tied to the black community. He has lived his whole life as a (more or less) black man, and the fact that he grew up in non-black communities probably only highlighted that fact. He is also married to a black American women and is raising two black American daughters. What more do you need?
3) Finally, I would echo CBF's comment below. His policies are beneficial for the black community at large, especially relative to those of the GOP. Your statement that the black community would be voting for him on the basis of his skin color is without support.
GenialFascist said 07/01, 08:48 PM
This is the process of choosing the man who'll occupy the most important office in the world. Who's in this office will have great impact on issues both domestic and internat'l. It's a critical time where policy and direction will have dramatic effect. For a segment to make their choice based on the fact that a candidate "...is dark-skinned and has a "funny name."" is foolish.
I still assert that OB is using the Black community as a tool. He???s comfortable that he???s got 12% of the vote in his pocket. That 12% is supporting without question, examination or debate of his positions.
I am not Black. I am Mexican/White raised by a white mother after my father's death when I was 1. I'd never claim to have a true grasp of the Mexican culture.
I have seen nothing in OB's writings citing instances of discrimination, struggle, or challenge that would affliate him to the Black culture by any measure other than the pigment of his skin. If he'd had these experiences he'd be better equipped to help a people that represent 44% of our prison population.
Higher taxes, bigger gov't, socialized medicine, bad energy policy, weakened defense will hurt ALL Americans of all colors at all levels
DonkeyDude said 07/02, 12:05 AM
Obama has a wildly fanatic base of supporters who are not black. Many are even self-described Republicans. His base of support was deep and wide enough to overcome seemingly insurmountable odds in overcoming HRC in the primaries. For you to say that his black supporters support him because he is black is thoroughly conclusory and denies the overwhelming appeal he has to voters across the whole political, racial and religious spectrums. Black supporters since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 have typically supported the Democratic candidate. Why is this any different?
And, more to the heart of your argument, what has Obama done to "use the black community?" Is he supposed to reject the black votes he receives? He hasn't pandered to the black voters any more than Hillary did. In fact, he has tried to avoid being seen as a "black candidate," and has instead tried to appeal to all types of Americans.
I not only disagree with your proposal that he has manipulated or gamed the black vote because of his skin, but I question your ability to call into question black voters' right to feel as though they relate to Obama more than a candidate like McCain.
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so what exactly qualifies as a meaningful connection to black people? Do his policies not help black people? What do you want him to slice his forearm open, Al Franken can do the same, and then they press their arms together?
Skipper04 | 06/29/08
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it does not matter how he was raised what matters is that he has the ability to care and support the black community and also the white as he has both races in him. yes he might have not grown up in poverty or not. if you have black blood in you, ypou have it.I think he does support and has a connection with us the black community.
tanzanaite | 06/30/08
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GF, see: "Unless you're black, which you are clearly not, you cannot purport to know what the 'black experience' is." Become one with those words, GF.
IamFry | 06/30/08
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GF, I am black and I strongly disagree with you. If what you say is true, then former candidates like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would have gotten almost full support from black voters. We want someone we agree with and we believe can win. Black voters are not colorblind. We wouldn't vote for Obama if he was a conservative. We are very proud to have a Black man in contention for the presidency, but that is not why we are voting for him. Obama's policies, like those of other liberal candidates, are inherently more helpful to black people than those of conservative politicians. Obamas health care initiative would call for lower prices for health insurance, which would do alot for poor black families. You fail to mention that Obama began his political career as a public servant in tthe south side of chicago, one of the worst ghettos in the country, and did a lot of work with inner city youth. You mentioned him severing ties with the Trinity Church. Why wouldn't he? He felt that Jeremiah Wright was hurting his chances to become President, he said that he didn't agree with some of Reverend Wright's comments (and neither do I), and much of the right wing media still portrayed him as anti-white. He did what was best for the campaign, and you can't expect more than that. Yoy really don't understand the black community, so you can't interperet its actions as well as you seem to think you can. The fact that Obama didn't grow up with a father is a trait that many young black males can relate to, not a sign that he doesn't have a black identity. As popular black radio host Tom Joyner once said, "Obama has to be a President before he can be a black President" He is the best democratic candidate and the first legitimate black candidate, and we are lucky to have him.
TheChocolateBearFactory | 06/30/08
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I have to agree with DD on this one except for the statement saying he is dark skinned. Obama could have passed the paper bag test back in the day. lol
lovejones | 07/01/08
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DonkeyDude I am African American and I think you have presented weakest and most patronizing argument on this debate. You seek to portray yourself as a saint that is prepared to fight for African Americans, and you turn out to be a condescending typical White American who thinks his job is to play charity with Blacks so they can climb onto the hero status. F*ck that. Whites must stop this nonsense of thinking that we are some experimental sample. There is some level of truth in what GF is saying. Obama does not represent the life and upbringing of a typical African American. But most Americans are looking at an American that happens to be black, not to a Black persons that happens to be American. I said MOST.
4Gore | 07/02/08
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I don't even understand how GF got any of the votes that he has, or the nonsense 4Gore speaks of, to say that Obama has done nothing for Black Community is preposterous. Also, to say that Obama does not represent the life and upbringing of a ???typical African American??? does not make sense, please explain to me how a "typical African American" is raised? I am an African American woman and I would like to know your opinion so I that I can try to understand. Just because it is portrayed through the media, television etc. that black people live in poverty-stricken neighborhoods, and racism is always right around the corner to bring us down does not mean that it is true. I was not raised that way at all, as a matter of fact most black people I know were not, nor were that at a disadvantage from your average American. What 4G is suggesting just goes back to the whole Obama is not "black enough" because of how he was raised, or ways he might act. What is truly "being black"? This "race" issue about Obama is played out, like DD said majority of black people voted Democrat anyway, and what is Obama a "Democrat" so until there is a Republican black candidate running for office that is getting 90% of the "black vote" race should not be an issue period, and people should stop bringing it up.
lovejones | 07/02/08
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GF, I'm a black man and agree 100%. Obama did not grow up black, he didn't even grow up American. Being a low-level politician (which is essential what a "community organiser" is) does not detract from the fact he has done little, if anything, for the black community, has little, if any, association, and has overstepped the thousands of better qualified black men.
Rotovia PhD | 07/02/08
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Jones, if you cant take the time to read my comment before you respond, just leave it. This is not a point scoring pedestal... or maybe it is.
4Gore | 07/02/08
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Rotovia, what is growing up black?? 4Gore my whole comment was not directed towards you, it was directed to people in general. I must say I don't understand where Rotovia, GF, or 4Gore are coming from at all, I can't relate as a black person myself. In addition, GF please explain how he uses his skin as a tool to garner the support of the black community? If anything say what it is you really want to say, what you want to say is that black people are voting for him because he is black; that would be black people being ignorant and not Obama using his skin color as an advantage. I think that GF doesn't understand what he is talking about because he is outside looking in, I think Rotovia is just a bitter Hillary supporter so he hates Obama, and 4Gore is just confused. Sorry if it hurts feelings but this is my opinion.
lovejones | 07/02/08
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4Gore, I beg you to answer this question intelligently and directly: What did I say that was patronizing and/or designed to make me some sort of "white hero?" BTW, I am multiracial.
DonkeyDude | 07/02/08
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GF didn't even attempt to support the second half of his argument. How does he have all these votes?
chit mang | 07/02/08
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DD, win or loose, thanks for the argument. Great exchange. All concerned - thanks for your participation... This is a great forum. God Bless America... Let's do it again... GF
GenialFascist | 07/02/08
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DonkeyDude | 06/28/08
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