There should be a program in place, to reward immigrants who wish to become citizens.
Eaglevision said 02/23, 01:41 AM
To stop "illegal" immigration we have to deal with the perception of the immigrant. While it is illegal for anyone to enter US soil without documentation, the real issue for natural citizens is two-fold. First, the immigrants have performed an illegal act by entering the country. Second, they now hold jobs, receive income, and do not pay taxes.
If we start a citizen program (for a fee, ofcourse), then immigrants who wish to enter (over the already generous immigration limit) will have a way that they can help our society. The program should allow them to enter the armed forces, definitely learn english, and YES pay taxes.
The program can be updated as loopholes are discovered. If we give them a choice, the most legal will take it. The criminals are already here, and it will be the same prosecuting them as it is now.
Ikefan said 02/23, 04:02 AM
No one would want to join this program. The problem with immagrants is that they don't like paying taxes. I'm personally for easy amnesty- a man should know english then be a citizen. But this pretty much gives the immagrant an option, "pay money to join this program, then pay huge taxes" they will take the option of not paying taxes and not paying an extra fee. I'm sure if the person weighs the fees of taxes and this program, their cheap labor job is atleast a little more profitable. This would encourage no one. If we force people to become citizens and make them learn English, we will have everyone on the same page as us.
Eaglevision said 02/23, 11:23 AM
I would like to address your assumption that "no one would want to join this program". You do realize that the price for entering this country illegally just went up to $3000 a head through means such as "coyote" which smuggles people across the border. What? Yeah I know, because I talk to legalized citizens who have such knowledge. Just because they are citizens now doesnt mean that they dont know about what goes on. So my question is this? If its 3 thousand a head, and people are paying it to get help across the border, what makes you think that we cant cut that cost down to 2 thousand at the border so they 1. dont have to worry about incarceration. 2. Dont have to stuff themselves and their kids in trunks, boxes, or in the back of trucks with farm animals. 3. Know that the program will provide them with skills as soon as they enter a foreign nation.
Or would you rather the social programs of today to keep straining under the load of immigrants crossing today.
My point is that they are already paying to get across. They get here and they have no language skills, just the heart to work and become a citizen. Let's give them a chance,but let them work for it.
Ikefan said 02/23, 11:45 AM
That's a very good point, buit this is an optional program. I was listening to Larry Kudlow this morning and he was talking about the program you mentioned. He said the average cost is $5,000, and it would probably go up. Most illegal immigrants would rather not pay taxes then have to pay $5,000, and I'm sure there is a cheaper way for them to get across the boarder. But if the U.S. makes it mandatory for the immigrants to be citzens (as well as learning English), or they'd be jailed, then we'd assimulate the immigrants into our culture. This seems like a very temporary fix for these people, and a fix that they'd rather not be part of. Why pay taxes if one doesn't have to? And there's nothing wrong with keeping strain on these immigrants crossing over- we shouldn't encourage this, though, in my opinion, there's not much wrong with these people coming over. I'm for the immigrants, and I want to assimulate them, and I beleive that should be mandatory. The barrier is too strong at them oment.
Eaglevision said 02/23, 10:24 PM
Thanks for agreeing on my points, but I do have some others to make.
First, you said "nothing wrong with keeping strains on the immigrants". My point was the strains on the systems we have that control the population in general; i.e.: the police, healthcare, etc. These systems have considerable more strain with the ever-growing population.
Second, you reference Larry Kudlow from the National Review. The amount he gave was (as he said) an average. This means he received information from several sources and found a decent sounding number. If you read his post on NRO, he states "Proper reform (for immigration) should combine stronger border security with higher visa levels and a path to citizenship". A path to citizenship....now isnt that what im saying? Learn english, build a trade, and NOT break the law. Sounds good to me. Who would you rather enter our country? Criminals who sneak in to not pay taxes...or someone in our program who can at least half understand english and pays taxes? Oh! and what about your comment on why they wouldnt... Princeton professor Douglas Massey estimates that roughly 2/3 of undocumented workers pay FICA payroll, 7Billon to Soc,1.5toMed
Ikefan said 02/23, 10:57 PM
First off, you're welcome, and you certainly know your stuff. That being said, the law works quite well (except for the too quick deportation of immigrants). Immigrants who are mandatory citizens will get healthcare, and will assimulate (in this program, would citizens get healtcare?). Kudlow says "The idea worked forty years ago with the successful Bracero program for farm workers. It can work again." 40 years ago, the tide was much different. There were much less immigrants. Eisenhower successfuly implemented the "Operation Wetback" plan (yes, real title) and had authorites just transfer the Mexicans to American farms. "Overall, illegals have fed $7 billion to Social Security and $1.5 billion to Medicare. They are contributing to our wealth, not reducing it." The illegals can do this when they're citizens, and it should be MANDATORY to become a citizen, and pay your taxes. Immigrants would have it pretty good not paying taxes, though I do see your point. And I'm not even in support of boarder security, the country is made of immigrants. And they're so many already in America, it won't matter. Sadly, this program is too great to work.
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This is finished already? This argument has just begun! I think we both have more points we want to make.
Ikefan | 02/23/08
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you idiots are talking about immigrants. not ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT! GET IT STRAIGHT. YOUR DEBATING ABOUT THE WRONG THING! i can't believe others have to remind you of what your debating about.
Mark | 02/24/08
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Ive heard plenty of immigrants say that they wished they could be citizens without have to wait ten years. I would certainly like them to be able to speak English better as well.
Bitterwords | 02/24/08
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Yeah, man.......I was so going to go on for a good bit. But thanks Ikefan your a very good debater. Maybe next time we can get into it a little more.........perhaps another debate?
Eaglevision | 02/24/08
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Neither of these fellows has a good plan about immigration. Rent-selling American citizenship is an abomination. Turning the US into Mexico II is another abomination. And we do already have a wonderful program for rewarding immigrants who want to become citizens. It's called The Constitution.
FLIPSIDE | 02/26/08
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Please keep it clean. Bad words will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.
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Sorry, ran out of room to finish the argument. My sources were www.nationalreview.com/kudlow/kudlow200604041505.asp. Thanks to everyone for voting and reading.
Eaglevision | 02/23/08
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