Skipper04 said 02/23, 07:00 AM
First off, he pretty much built the platform that both the current candidates are running on and I think he deserves enormous credit for that. He was one fighting tooth and nail back in 2004 to get the DNC to move in this current direction. Instead, they went with the typical candidate who simply pandered to his party's base. They lost the election as a result, because John Kerry had NO appeal outside of the democratic party's base. A lot of the moderates then went, believe it or not, to George Bush instead because he was more relatable to them.
Secondly, I think he would be a great choice for either Hillary or Barack. With Hillary, one of the most prevalent themes in this election is that the voters want change. Hillary is seen as less of change candidate than the other two, so she would stand to benefit by having him on the ballet. He also offers her inroads into the male demographic. Hillary has consistently performed poorly in that arena in every primary, and polls show she would lose those votes to McCain by a large margin. Edwards helps Obama, not only because of his experience but because he builds on this ideal of change and helps bring him the above 60 crowd.
Eaglevision said 02/23, 11:53 AM
I believe that we have seen the man, following all of his party's values, attempt two separate times to get the nomination. Both times his party has felt that he was not the best candidate. Not just by a little, Kerry had an overwhelming majority of democratic votes. And in 2008, he fell short of super Tuesday. So my first point is that Edwards does not do as well as others within his own party. Not very good VP material. After the 2004, election it was easy to see that he didnt help Kerry because they didnt carry either NC (it went to Bush) where he was a senator, or his native SC. What gives? This guy has trouble getting the vote of his own state. With the vote being so close, you know that could have made a difference.
Disclaimer: I am currently living in NC. Edwards picture has been on billboards for his law practice when I first entered the state.
I think that what both democratic candidates need is someone who can provide what they lack. Not another stone around their necks like Edwards.
Lets give our democratic nominee a real fighting chance this time!
Skipper04 said 02/24, 02:14 AM
They lost the Carolinas in 2004 because they ran the northeastern liberal, elitist that was John Kerry. They won't have that same problem this time around, especially if they are smart enough to avoid Hillary Clinton. The reason he couldn't compete in this election was simple, he was dwarfed by two media darlings. His policies had a whole lot of support, you can see that by the fact that his policies are now reflected in both Hillary's and Barack's policy. It's true that he didn't do so well when matched up against Kerry in 2004, but that was a much different political season. In 2004, Kerry could just pander to his party's base and coast to the nomination. As you can see that doesn't work this year (it's the reason that Hillary, the once presumptive nominee, is now losing to a freshman senator who churns out the independent votes) The change movement was just beginning and it was John Edwards who helped kick it into gear. I don't see how is background as lawyer hurts him, seeing as just about every politician has a law degree.
Eaglevision said 02/25, 12:14 AM
No, they lost in North Carolina because Edwards has a reputation here that is not so good. Secondly, you said they should avoid Hillary Clinton? So if she takes the nomination (through whatever means), then you yourself are concluding that Edwards is not the best choice.
Thirdly, he didnt have the 2 media darlings in competition in 2004 and still lost the nomination to Kerry. Perhaps we should go back to the Vice President debate 2004 where Dick Cheney said.(to Edwards).."And Senator, frankly, you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished. You've missed 33 out of 36 meetings in the Judiciary Committee, almost 70 percent of the meetings of the Intelligence Committee. You've missed a lot of key votes: on tax policy, on energy, on Medicare reform.
Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you "Senator Gone." You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate.
Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session.
The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight."
That point,in itself, is good enough for me.
Skipper04 said 02/25, 01:28 AM
No i'm saying that if they nominate hillary it will be a mistake. not that Edwards as her vp would be. i don't see how you came to that. I was saying that kerry was too out of touch with southerners to win in the south, and hillary might be too. Right he lost in 2004, i already addressed that issue (though obviously we still disagree. Kerry couldn't win in the south. The dems should have realized that. And if we are going to take what Dick Cheney says as accurate then most people are going to have to switch their position on Iraq. Will what John McCain says about Barack or Hillary come to define them for you? Most of those meetings were missed while Edwards was on the campaign trail looking for his party's nomination. Cheney was running unopposed so of course he is going to be there more. I heard a similar statement made about how many votes Barack has missed. I don't think it's going to persuade very many people. The mere fact that edwards was able to stay in so long and still get as many votes as he did is evidence of his popularity given that the news media was obviously ignoring him in favor of the first black and female candidates. got tired sorry about the slopp
Eaglevision said 02/27, 10:36 PM
Edwards stayed in because he knew that most people were tired of a Republican administration and would probably get the moderate vote of both parties because he was not a minority. Turns out, he was wrong. America is ready for a minority candidate. That's why he lost so early.
But back to the point. You say that Kerry/Edwards lost the south in 2004 because Kerry was out of touch. And Bush wasnt? The carolinas hated Bush from the 2000 election (they favored Gore). So your idea that Kerry was the cause does not hold water. Why wouldnt the carolinas want one of their own in the white house. Ill tell you...because hes an ambulance chaser down here. Disclaimer: I live in North Carolina.
You contradicted yourself. First you say that Dick Cheney was wrong in his speech about how Edwards missed meetings. Then you go on to give excuses for Edwards for missing the same meetings. "He was running" you say! Hey, I thought you didnt believe Cheney?
Why would I want to pay Edwards the salary of being Vice President when I know his track record of missing meetings to run for his next office? So we pay him three years to work, so he can slack off the
last year to run for Pres
I think Edwards is too worried about his looks. I also believe, from the sound of the debates, that he wasnt going for president; it sounded like he was trying to get obama or hillary to partner up with him (esp. Obama).
Bitterwords | 02/24/08
Report Offensive CommentI like this debate. Especially with the race between Obama and Hillary going on right now. Im looking forward to the rest of your guys points.
UncleSam70 | 02/24/08
Report Offensive CommentOkay so my debate source was....http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004b.html Thanks to everyone for reading and voting.
Eaglevision | 02/25/08
Report Offensive Commentand i was apologizing for the sloppiness of my last post at the end there
Skipper04 | 02/25/08
Report Offensive CommentWhat Cheney said in 2004 has been proven to be a lie, he made that up, they were even photographed together in the Senate chamber long before that debate, just putting that out there.
base89 | 02/25/08
Report Offensive CommentActually they werent lies, base. Edwards missed several meetings and votes, because he was running for President. It was better this election because he is no longer a senator (he lost that by running for pres last time). At least this time no votes were missed and the people actually got some form of representation. The part about the first meeting is understandibly misconstrued by Cheney. Many photographs are taken in the floor of the Senate, as is the House. Its almost like the photo-op of the century with people from different parties jumping in and out of camera shots. It doesnt mean that Cheney actually "met" him. Cheney was using the analogy to express how little Edwards attended sessions.
Eaglevision | 02/27/08
Report Offensive Commentwell good job eaglevision. question though, how can you say the carolina's favored gore in the 2000 election when both went to bush? i'll grant that you live in carolina, but your statement that my argument does not hold water seems weak because you back the claim up with speculation. I was using Cheney's reputation to show that he is not the most trustworthy person who shouldn't be relied on for a fair view of anything, not that he was lying.
Skipper04 | 02/28/08
Report Offensive CommentGore won the nomination in the carolinas, thats how I can make the statement. Do you guys realize that this tie had condemned me from my 3-0 tie for second place on the leaderboard now down to about 20th place. What a terrible system. Im ranked lower than about 15 guys who only had one win. Good job skipper, I loved the debate. Your pretty good, you kept me going.
Eaglevision | 02/29/08
Report Offensive CommentPlease keep it clean. Bad words will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.
IDF tanks and infantry launch a ground offensive in the Palestinian enclave
(Uriel Sinai / Getty)
Caltech physics professor Kenneth G. Libbrecht has turned his passion for the study of ice crystals into an art form. In his books and website, Snowcrystals.com, he breaks down some of the basics behind these miniature miracles of nature
(Kenneth G. Libbrecht)
Whoot! Nice to see a debate on something im interested in but havent formed an opinion about. You guys are making some interesting points...
Jonah | 02/23/08
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