Ikefan said 02/23, 12:27 PM
Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago had tons and tons of dead people vote in Illinois, and the election was resting on Illinois and Texas in 1960. Lyndon Johnson was from Texas and had the mafia hustle people for Kenendy's votes. Because of the cheating in those two states, Nixon lost the election. Watergate was fair game became Nixon was just giving Democrats a taste of their own medicine. Whether it be George McGovern or Kennedy, Nixon was just giving the Democrats what they deserved.
LiveforReason said 02/23, 09:34 PM
Watergate is the most recognizable example of corruption in modern politics. To say that Nixon should be excused for his actions is an insult to the people and democracy of the US.
Not only was Nixon and his reelection committee caught committing illegal wiretapping and espionage for political gain, but he was responsible for the attempted cover-up and obstruction of justice, which many believe is the most serious offence. In fact, the Smoking Gun tape, which caused the House to initiate impeachment proceedings, was proof that he and his aides had contacted the CIA in order to impede the FBI investigations. Nixon was convinced that his executive privilege put him above the law, above the people, and above justice. However, Watergate proved that the President has no right to impede the judicial system, and is accountable to the law like every other American.
In response to the claim that Watergate was Nixon's revenge on the Democrats, Nixon had the opportunity to challenge the validity of the 1960 Illinois results and chose not to. Regardless, illegal revenge is not worth taking, especially if it takes advantage of the American people.
Ikefan said 02/23, 10:46 PM
But I think had Nixon not been defeated and cheated in 1960, he wouldn't feel above the law. It was Kenendy's fault by setting the standard of corruption. He never got screwed over by it (he probably wouldn't have even had he lived), and I feel it's okay, and that Nixon felt he had some leeway. The Democrats did something rotten and got away with it- so why can't Nixon? Nixon didn't challenge the validity of Illinois probably because he didn't want to seem like a sore loser- he did run for governor two years later, and seeming like a sore loser would look bad in a political campaign. The president has the right to impede the judicial system if crimes have been commited against him- and in the same nature. Besides, McGovern would've lost anyway, so why did it really even matter?
LiveforReason said 02/23, 11:34 PM
No one can prove what Nixon would have done if he had won the 1960 election, and frankly that is irrelevant to the debate.
Plain and simple: Nixon broke the law. No one can deny this fact. Taken in any context, if one engages in illegal activities, then hampers the federal investigation into those activities, that person is guilty of violating federal law. As President of the United States, Nixon at the least opened himself to impeachment. If a president were allowed to get away with these crimes, America would be taking a step closer to an unchecked executive branch.
Did the Democrats engage in illegal activities in 1960? Many think so. However, Nixon had the opportunity to extract his "revenge: legally by challenging these results. Had illegal activities been uncovered, Nixon would have been revered as a hero. Instead, Nixon chose illegal espionage and cover-up, becoming nothing more than a corrupt politician himself.
Ikefan said 02/24, 12:56 AM
But what I'm arguing is that I don't think he deserved it par ce. The Democrats didn't get caugt, so why should he get in trouble? Nixon broke the law, but I think he had a right to, because that's what the Democrats did. And it wasn't even that much of a big deal, in my opinion.
LiveforReason said 02/24, 12:42 PM
Again, the Democrats could have been caught had Nixon challenged the results. He did not, thereby forfeiting his chance. Once Nixon was elected President in 1968, the 1960 election should have been in the back of his mind. He was the victor, and should have focused on performing his duty:"to uphold the Constitution of the US." In 1972, Nixon had no reason to break the law because as you said, McGovern would have lost anyway.
Nixon let his paranoia get the best of him, engaging in illegal wire tapping and campaign activities for his own political profit. Once he was caught, Nixon committed the most serious offence: covering his tracks and obstructing justice. Congress, the Supreme Court, and the people of the US had no choice but to address this unwarranted breach of executive power. Nixon was not excessively punished, he was merely held up to the laws and rules that every American must answer to.
If Nixon was excused for Watergate because of the 1960 election, then by the same twisted logic al Qaeda is justified for killing 3,000 Americans on September 11th. Nixon must be held accountable for his actions because he tampered with the Judicial system and broke the law.
I just beleive one should be allowed to practice's Hummarabi's Code once in a while.
Ikefan | 02/23/08
Report Offensive CommentYou would make a fine case if we happened to all live within the Babylonian Empire.
Tippins | 02/24/08
Report Offensive CommentDitto Tippins. Good one. People like LiveforReason make me scared to instigate Face offs... so why did I start one and happen to have him take it up? :(
Accidental Democrat | 02/24/08
Report Offensive CommentThe key word (or number) in that topic is "100%". You should have at least said, "sympathized with" or something of that nature.
twelve angry men | 02/24/08
Report Offensive CommentCrazy... Nixon was a criminal. I agree with the previous comment; PERHAPS I might agree that revenge was some kind of... mitigating circumstance. wait, as I heard myself read that I realize how utterly ridiculous it sounds. What Nixon did was wrong and his impeachment was deserved.
mulethewind | 02/25/08
Report Offensive CommentWhile revenge for a crime committed against you, is certainly a mitigating circumstance, you should still be punished for the crime. And he was. He had to lose his seat as president, but was then pardoned by the next President. So what did he lose? But I was intrigued by this Illinois election tampering issue. Time for some research I guess....
Eaglevision | 02/25/08
Report Offensive CommentYes, Kennedy probally "stole" the election, but what excuse is that for Watergate? Sure, Nixon was not the one who did the illegal activitie, but he had knowledge of it and participated in the cover-up. I agree that 100% is the key in this.
KittyCatRep | 05/12/08
Report Offensive CommentPlease keep it clean. Bad words will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.
Since when is 'engaging in illegal activity for the purposes of exacting revenge' an acceptable form of conduct from anyone, let alone a US president?
IamFry | 02/23/08
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