Ralph Nader supporters have the same political mindset as many in George Bush's inner circle.
Austhus said 02/25, 11:43 AM
First, I will preface this by saying this is not a policy debate: George Bush and Ralph Nader are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum and they have little if anything in common from a policy standpoint.
That being said, the political mentality of both these men have always been closer to idealogical purity rather than practical rationality.
Exhibit A: George Bush has vetoed many bills sent his way since the Democratic Congress took over. These bills, out of necessity, have been crafted out of compromise between Democrats and Republicans in the Senate. However, due to them not matching explicitly with what Bush wants, these bills are vetoed due their ideological changes.
Exhibit B: Ralph Nader himself claims that compromise on a few key issues has driven support to him from the Democratic party. Nader supporters want absolute purity of their ideas passed without the compromises coming with the natural progression of laws within Congress.
Both groups supporters demand ideological purity over pragmatic compromise. In that sense, they share the "winner take all" mentality of politics while being at the opposite end of the political spectrum.
twelve angry men said 02/25, 03:55 PM
Nader and Bush are similar in their distain for opposing opinions, but that is where the similarities end. Nader???s mentality is more of a ???me against the world??? politics, whereas Bush will play faction politics and utilize his allies. If Nader had any respect for his political allies he would not be running; he has to know that he is costing the Democrats votes. Ultimately Bush has a team mentality whereas Nader cares mostly about his message. ???Us verses them??? as opposed to ???me verses them??? is a crucial difference.
Austhus said 02/25, 05:13 PM
That's the point, though. You say "If Nader had any respect for his political allies he would not be running." He has NO political allies, because his ideology is too far left and he refuses to compromise.
Bush does NOT have a team mentality. He certainly didn't have a team going into Iraq, and his "team" is built of yes-men who refuse to point out flaws of his plans. He rewards loyalty to his cause, not the value of their team contributions.
Their shared disdain for anything but absolutism to their cause reflects an unwillingness to compromise in both men. That shared political mindset is something Nader supporters don't see. Ironically, it is this same mentality in Bush they usually cite in their hatred of the man.
twelve angry men said 02/25, 05:32 PM
I know we like to think of Bush as a loose cannon, but nothing he does gets done without the support of others. I agree that he tries to lead half the nation and ignore the other half, but gaining as much power as he did came from gaining support from loyalist Republicans and his party. In regards to unilateral invasion of Iraq: Firstly, it was more unilateral than it should have been, but it was not unilateral. There were many countries that went in with the US. More importantly, Iraq has nothing to do with this topic because we are talking about political not military mindset.
Were Nader in congress he could have political allies if he would only paint himself as a type of Democrat. Down with big business policies are popular with many in the left. He could have allies, he just doesn???t want them. Bush wants to be leader of a club, Nader doesn???t want a club.
Austhus said 02/26, 01:24 PM
This isn't about having political allies. Anyone can have political allies and get your agenda completed. Instead, both Bush and Nader supporters have the "take no prisoners" approach to policy. Compromise is the enemy and idealogical pureness is more important than pragmatic compromise.
In short, it's not how many friends you have, but how well you work with people that don't share your views. Nader frequently cites compromises that Democrats HAVE to make to get anything done as proof that they are no longer capable of carrying the proper liberal standard, while hard-line Bush supporters demand absolute loyalty to the cause and view compromise as weakness.
No matter how you slice it, Nader and Bush share the common political mentality of idealogical purity, no matter the cost to your overall goals.
twelve angry men said 02/26, 01:51 PM
There are similarities in the political mindsets of Bush and Nader. The resolution, however, states that the mind sets are ???the same???. They are similar, but they are not the same because Bush is of the mindset he is part of an exclusive club and Nader is of the mindset that he is a lone wolf.
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A quick comment as voting is finishing up on this one: I feel I've been given an easy road to my current lofty record. I started making bolder and bolder statements in an attempt to push my debate abilities to their limits. So far, it's appeared that I've reached it while still managing to come out civil. This was a very challenging debate from the beginning, as the premise is something not discussed and comes from outer space. Good debate, TAM, and thank you for the challenge.
Austhus | 02/27/08
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That's the point, though. You say "If Nader had any respect for his political allies he would not be running." He has NO political allies, because his ideology is too far left and he refuses to compromise. Bush does NOT have a team mentality. He certainly didn't have a team going into Iraq, and his "team" is built of yes-men who refuse to point out flaws of his plans. He rewards loyalty to his cause, not the value of their team contributions. Their shared disdain for anything but absolutism to their cause reflects an unwillingness to compromise in both men. That shared political mindset is something Nader supporters don't see. Ironically, it is this same mentality in Bush they usually cite in their hatred of the man.
Austhus | 02/25/08
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