RUSH for 2012 won the Face Off.

ReVoluTionNow! vs RUSH for 2012

Liberty
Face Offs: 29
Wins: 19
Losses: 8
Ties: 2
LAS VEGAS, NV
All Face Offs
3
Votes
Limbaugh
Face Offs: 53
Wins: 7
Losses: 45
Ties: 1
, =
All Face Offs
5
Votes

The Federal Reserve System must be abolished.


Andrew Jackson ran on the whole premise of destroying the federal bank that John Adams had created. He did so and he warned and said, "God help this nation if another central banking system comes to be." He was right. Now we are printing money out of thin air. The FED tells the Reserve that they need 100 billion dollars, so the Reserve buys 100 billion in government bonds and than gives the FED 100 billion in Cash. WTF kind of system is that. That is why we have such a turbulent system.We have vested too much power into the American banking system. JP Morgan and Rockefeller back in the twenties were loaning the FED tons of cash. They had a strange precondition as well. Not only for the fed but for customers as well. At any time they could recall their loan to be paid within 24 hours, no matter who it was and guess what happened if they did not pay. They owned whatever it was they were loaning on. What happened in 1929? JP Morgan and the other banking magnates decided to excersise their muscle and recall billions in debt to be paid immediately thus resulting in the crash. The Federal Reserve System and the banking system have enslaved us into financial slavery.STOP THE GREED!


Yeah, Jackson did destroy the Second National Bank in 1836, and a year later the economy crashed. The panic of 1837 was directly responsible for Martin Van Buren's, Jackson's VP, short term as president. You want to know who Jackson gained his ill concieved ideas from? James Madison and the Jeffersonian-Democrats, who vehemently opposed the National Banking system. Madison destroyed the First National Bank when he allowed its charter to expire in 1811. Ironically he was forced to create the Second National Bank in 1816 when he foresaw the Panic of 1819 coming, which is what formed Jacksons anti-banking views. Lincoln too faced the problems created by Jacksons destruction of the bank, and is directly responsible for getting the government to produce the first greenback, 450 million of them to be exact (and the federal tax - but that is another story.) And finally, with the Panic of 1907 we learned our lessons from history and instituted the Federal reserve system in 1913. The Merchantilist system is antiqauted. Mere bullion is not enough to power a first rate economy, as Spains failures during the 17th and 18th century's suggest. Ironically Jacksons face is now printed on the $20.


I applaud your historical knowledge. The word more has become a central existential position and have no ulterior border in the same manner as that of drug abusers or people denying humanity and mortality. These banks are an absolute threat to the well being of Americans and the world. Capitalism ruled the twentieth century. Now the dust in settling and the environmental, social and economic ramifications of runaway greed is becoming more and more visible. The hammer must be dropped on the financial tycoons who have long run this nation into the ground. Right wing Neo Con Milton Friedman, famed economist and advisor to 4 presidents noted that the Federal Reserve System not only aided the great depression but actually caused it. The Federal Reserve System was there to ensure that this happened by supplying cash to the banks...Why didn't this system prevent The Great Depression after 1929? Because from 1929 to 1930 after the stock market crashed, the Federal Reserve system allowed the quantity of money to decline slowly thereby throttling the monetary structure...If the Federal Reserve had stepped in, bought government securities on a large scale, provided the cash, etc etc.


Spoken like a true Jacksonian. In Jacksons Veto of the Bank, 1832, he said he was against "laws undertake[n] . . . to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful." "The humble members of society, the farmers, mechanics, and labors???who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves??? were the people that Jackson represented as he destroyed the Bank. His bias against Nicholas Biddle, and his "financial tycoon" friends blinded him to the realities that by destroying the Bank, he actually destroyed a federal institution that regulated the nation's economy. In a nation with no strong economic regulation, the rich found greater opportunities to do as they pleased, and the poor lost out even more, we had a Panic in 1837. Jackson's dream of having a nation devoid of speculation, where paper bills would be permanently replaced by metalic specie was, simply put, retarded. By 1913 we understood that we needed a federal system. This did not, however, mean that the system was without its kinks. The Great Depression, in fact, with the creations of the SEC and the FDIC, actually increased Federal involvement rather than abolishing it as you and Jackson would want.


You would be absolutely right........If The FED and The SEC actually did the jobs they were created to do. Now we have a system in which the FED acts as a pimp to the federal government. The FED sells billions of dollars worth of government bonds that the government sold in exchange for cash(the basis on which federal funding workds.) Many foreign banks own billions of American bonds issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. The Bank of China is the primary financier of the Iraq War through this monetary policy. Basically, foreign nations own our government because of The Federal Reserve System. The most insane part of the whole scheme is that there is no "reserve" in any bank. In fact the whole FDIC system is a sham. By law banks only need to have 10% of any deposited cash on reserve in hard currency. The rest as you know is used for loans, investments, etc etc. The same policy is shared by the FED. The world bank is even an offshoot. The head of the World Bank is the United States. You cannot deny that there are sinister forces at work within the world monetary institutions that seek to expand capitol at any cost.


Rev, you are preaching to the choir on this one. Every Republican in America would proudly stand behind your stance on China. Of the $2.67 trillion we owe, China owns $541 billion - up from the $65.1 it used to be in 2001. That means that China owns practically a full quarter of the U.S. treasury. The SEC, in charge of curbing rampant speculation, did fail. And the FDIC, supposedly insuring the customer for up to $250,000, could never do that in a serious banking crisis - it's all just a bunch of smoke and mirrors. What you are suggesting, then, sounds less like throwing the baby out with the bath water and more like a desire to replace existing institutions with ones more capable. Here is the point. I am in many ways a Jackson fan. One cannot deny what you and Jackson seem to hold in common: a desire to root out corruption. In my view Jackson's problem was not that he destroyed the bank, it is that he failed to replace this regulatory system with one better suited to carry out his egalitarian vision. His is another failed attempt at Democratic policy that left the country in shambles. Though there is no other firebrand in American history quite like him. Old Hickory was the man.

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Fdr

2012 is back...

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The thing to keep in mind too is the fact that the Federal Reserve system is backed by the five top banks in England (the U. K.). It might explain the reason we were put on the line when BP (British Petroleum) had interest in Iran that we secured for them when they couldn't. Our allegiance isn't simply because we like them and they like us. Although that is true for the most part, we do a lot of their bidding because we are the strong one, they, in a sense, are the brains. Having them holding a controlling interest in our economy like that assures them that 'America will do what we want and say'. Pretty brilliant, one must admit!

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Reagan

Funny, a profound misunderstanding of the economy as a whole seems to be the only qualification to becoming a democrat.

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Flagabstract

Hey Nate. Since I watched your Nazi movies, you should be fair and watch this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912 So, I was talking to a friend and they completely thought the FED was indeed "federal". Thought I might also inform them that there was no "reserve". Most people have no clue that we run a fractional-reserve system either...and when I explain it, they seem confused thinking that our money was somehow regulated and backed by SOMETHING, ANYTHING. No, it really means nothing and is created out of nothing by a private, tax-free corporation.

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Flagabstract

In fact, section 8 of the constitution states that only Congress can coin money and regulate the value therof. It's a really scandalous situation, the FED. How do we ever pay it all back? Do they even want us to? If I were Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, I'd pay off the FED and close it down. Go back to what Kennedy wanted to do in executive order 11110: http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/executiveorder11110.htm

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Neutral

mikethearf, which century are you in ? Quote: "the fact that the Federal Reserve system is backed by the five top banks in England (the U. K.)." it must be the good old imperial and colonial days of Queen Victoria. Today they have trouble backing their own Pound Sterling. The Fed system is backed by countries buying US government bonds. And all countries running surplusses (China, India, Arab countries) do that. You are absolutely right when you say that this guarantees a system of interdependence and future economic development.

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Fdr

I have a slightly off-topic question: Am I right when I say the glass-steagle (however you spell it) act said that the government would back bank-accounts for up to a certain amount of money? I want to make sure I've got it right because If I haven't, then I'd be relived (because the act was abolished and I would prefer the gov. to back at least SOME of my money...), and I am, indeed, correct, then WTF ARE THOSE BOZOS DOING IN WASHINGTON? THAT ACT WAS LIKE THE ONE THING THAT SAVED US FROM THE SAVINGS-AND-LOAN CRISIS IN THE LATE 80'S!!! WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY NOT WANT IT? CAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE SPENDING SO MUCH? GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Fdr

Oh, and BreacktheCycle... it would be hilarious if the U.S. defaulted on all it's debts... LOL! That would certainly break our debt cycle... ewww.... how will that ever be taken care of.... defaulting seems like one of the only possible options other than high taxes....

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Erich. Based on fact, though most don't know that. Check it out. Reality sucks, doesn't it, Erich the Superior!

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