Socializing organ transplants was the right move.
Your God(ess) said 11/19, 07:44 PM
I heard on the radio a while ago some people arguing about turning organ-transplants and all that into a free market. I found the idea appalling.
Some things said for the free market: It would help the poor because they would get money from transplants. Also, making it legal to sell organs and all that would mean there would be no black market. I forget the others, but I don't think I'll have room for them.
To counter the first bit, What if the poor are the ones in need or the organ? They won't be able to afford it (considering our shortage), and they won't have any hope, and only the rich would be healthy. And, if the poor have lost their means of financial stability, would they start to sell off their organs? If so, that would be very sick. There are better ways to help the poor.
True, turning organ donations and all that into a free market would eliminate the black market, but that is actually obvious and unhelpful. All that means is that you made the black market legal! It's like saying there is no more crime after you've just legalized everything! Including murder! This doesn't help the situation!
JustBlue said 11/19, 11:43 PM
Having been in healthcare for over 30 year God (ess) I can tell you that those who have the money to pay for an organ will. They will also be at the top of the list because they can also pay the PHYSICIAN who performs the procedure.
Your God(ess) said 11/20, 06:54 PM
Yes, JustBlue, that is very true. Rich people are still paying their way to getting the organs they need illegally, but socializing the organ transplant system made that illegal, so if they are ever caught, they will have to go to jail.
Had the system not been socialized, there would be no list, and the rich would be the first to get the organs anyway. It would still be legal for them to get the organs in whatever way they can. The socialized system aims to stop that, even if there still are people getting out of it. The system gives the poor a chance.
JustBlue said 11/24, 03:02 PM
God(ess) My Thoughts:
First, it is not currently "illegal" to pay the best physician(s) in the US to perform your organ transplant. He/She will procuring your organ for the best possible outcome of "THEIR" surgery. Yes, the rich will have to pay for that fresh organ too. A loophold if you will.....
Second, In my experiences, a "poor" person just takes it as it is, and dies for whatever reason, with the little dignity that they feel they have left. Would they sell an organ, Yes. either to stay alive themselves, or for a relative.
I am proud of these souls, they made those of us who live in the US what we are today. The problem is that many are still here and we are not helping them very much now.
We're past being able to stop the rich from paying and getting what they want....look at the Wall Street bail-out vs Car Makers. Who's getting a Free Ride and who is having to come up with a "Plan"? (I go off message I'm sorry).
Your God(ess) said 12/11, 12:41 AM
Okay, I've been gone for a while... but... First, I don't quite get your first argument... If you mean JUST to perform the surgery, you'll notice that I said it was paying their way to the ORGANS that was illegal. I don't quite get your loophole (I assume loophold was a typo).
Second, your second paragraph is exactly my point. If we didn't have a socialist organ transplant system, the poor could be selling organs right and left... which is very wrong. If we didn't have this socialist system then poor people may actually sell their body, literally, to get money for their family.
Third, HUH???? I don't get what you are trying to say in your third paragraph AT ALL! You have confused me beyond my wildest expectations.
Fourth, we are certainly beyond stopping the rich from getting what they want if we accept that as a fact (which it isn't). Sure, the rich are getting a lot of paid-for rides, but that doesn't mean the people actually paying for it are happy about it. Why do you think a HUGE portion of the country disapproved of the bailouts? Why do you think Obama got elected? I think it is because people are getting fed up with a lot of the corruption that is all around us.
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Sure sw, lets keep letting the free market deal with everything and let citizens of this country die of curable diseases by the thousands. Nice.
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/20/08
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I don't think you guys understood what I said AT ALL! I'm not talking about health care in general, just organ transplants! Woa!
Your God(ess) | 11/20/08
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I must agree with y_g(ess) on this issue, her question was quite narrow and not as broad as the voting reflects. This is why i believe that stem cell research is imperative. The major news networks reported that doctors had successfully replace a windpipe using her own stem cell.
polyfoamworkshop | 11/20/08
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I did God(ess) and it had nothing to do with healthcare in general.
JustBlue | 11/20/08
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Oh okay... just making sure cause I saw a debate where the arguer decided to argue about something else... and I was wondering if the same thing happened here.
Your God(ess) | 11/20/08
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By the way sw, thanks for your support. My heart is warmed by the fact that I have your support on this issue. Thank you.
Your God(ess) | 11/20/08
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The bail out shoudn't go ahead and I am an Obama supporter. The socialism should be for the majority. People who work two or three jobs, who live on the streets, who can't afford healthcare. They should be helped, not CEO nutters who swan around in private jets and have the cheek to ask for money off the poor.
Obamarocks | 11/20/08
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stop going off topic! I'm just talking about organ transplants! I'm being very specific!!!!!!
Your God(ess) | 11/20/08
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I just don't think that many are being prosecuted God(ess), but in essence you are right, Money should not determine who gets the next viable organ.
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08
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Those who can pay are putting back into the system Godess. Those doctors need to live too, not just the poor guy who wants an organ transplant. Something for nothing, that is all I ever hear from you Godless morons.
RUSH for 2012 | 11/21/08
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What makes you angry about a poor person receiving a life saving operation 2012?
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08
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Nothing, if they are willing to pay for their operation, great! Listen, to turn the system on its head and give those who merit the transplant, i.e. they don't have the same cash resources as the other guy, the transplant would subvert the whole process. Those who work hard and have the money drive the market, it is as simple as that. Resources are what people want when they get these transplants, so it makes sense that resources are what someone should have to give. Those with the most resources should get the transplant, it is only fair.
RUSH for 2012 | 11/21/08
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I think you can be pretty cold 2012. A mother of three needs a transplant. Not a lot of money. A guy who runs a whorehouse in Nevada can afford it. Who is more deserving? In my mind, the mother, she is doing something for society. The other patient is just lining his pockets. Many may disagree, but that is the problem. It has to be totally impartial. Wait your turn in line. Otherwise we rely on humans to make judgements that they should not be making. Money should never be considered a moral compass.
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08
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I think you can be pretty cold 2012. A mother of three needs a transplant. Not a lot of money. A guy who runs a whorehouse in Nevada can afford it. Who is more deserving? In my mind, the mother, she is doing something for society. The other patient is just lining his pockets. Many may disagree, but that is the problem. It has to be totally impartial. Wait your turn in line. Otherwise we rely on humans to make judgements that they should not be making. Money should never be considered a moral compass.
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08
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2012, what makes you think it is something for nothing? The system only determines who should get the organs first. Obviously, in our own (flawed) health care system as a whole, unless you can afford the procedure, you still won't really get the organ and operation. While I still think that is wrong, I'm only talking about the decision-making process that ensures the opportunity for the poor to have access to organs when they are in need of a new one. Get it?
Your God(ess) | 11/21/08
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Can't we just give the poor some sort or random organ from a pig, or a chicken or something?
RUSH for 2012 | 11/22/08
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Sure, why not give them something that won't work? Great idea. Let's first try it on you.
Your God(ess) | 11/22/08
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By the way, this is where stem cell research comes in...
Your God(ess) | 11/22/08
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From pigs and chickens, really? I thought it was through human embryos, which I am opposed to. Destroying one life to save another just strikes me as reprehensible.
RUSH for 2012 | 11/22/08
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Your (God)ess: Sure, let's turn health care over to the people who currently run the inner-city projects and the U.S. mail. Nice call.
swdowning | 11/20/08
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