The best way to reform welfare is.........
10acousD said 11/20, 11:08 AM
**set up the system to move people towards financial independence rather than just living off welfare forever
1. set up a timetable. say 5 years. that is plenty of time to get retrained, reschooled, or get a better job.
2. help the people with their issues. MANDATORY counseling shoul dbe involved. hire counselors to go into the homes and help the people learn to budget...help them learn how to save. if alcoholism is a problem make AA meetings mandatory.
3. random drug tests. no 2nd chances. you pop positive you lose welfare eligibility for 5 years.
4. After you use your 5 years on welfare you cannot reapply for 5 years.
Welfare should give the people what they need to get their lives in order.
food stamps, an apartment, medicare, a bus pass, pell grant for college or vo-tech, free daycare.
but after 5 years, you are expected to be on your own.
This will be tough on some...but it will make our nation stronger by holding us accountable. Kids today have NO FEAR of dropping out of school. They turn 18 and already know the system and how to take, take, take.
Exceptions to this can be made for people with REAL disabilities.
Proud 2 b liberal said 11/20, 11:17 AM
Whoa there 10. In essence you make some good points but there are some real problems with your argument. Number one, the unemployment rate in this country is skyrocketing. If there are no jobs, you just can't let a family with kids starve, even if they have used their 5 years 2 or 3 years previously. In this country we cannot let one child go hungry. If we start doing that, shame on us as a nation.
I agree that the major goal of the welfare system is to find a way back to the workforce, but the rules you set out are quite rigid. Lets take a for instance. A single mother of an infant with severe disabilities. Unless you mandate good and safe childcare for all children then you cannot expect that mother to go back to work. And how about the 3 million workers who are about to lose their jobs if the auto industry fails? OK, so you have some retraining, but for the most part, these folks are best suited to a manufacturing job, of which there are fewer and fewer. And in a poor economy there are just not 3 million extra jobs to go around.
I agree that welfare is oftentimes abused, but your rigid stance will not only effect abusers, but innocent victims as well.
10acousD said 11/21, 08:06 AM
unemployment?
lol
check the newspapers of EVERY newspaper, big or small..TONS OF JOBS are available in every field.
Skilled and unskilled labor is in HIGH demand. don't buy into that bullcrap that 6% of America really cant find a job.
no child will go hungry. we have soup kitchens and food pantries and churches on every corner. nobody goes hungry. notice i didnt say end the free/reduced lunch program in schools! there will always be citizens who help the needy. It will force welfare queens to actually ASK for help, which can be embarassing. this will deter the long-term welfare addicts. Plus it may spawn some "tough love" from those they mooch off of.
and you are also drinking the auto industry kool-aid! if they go bankrupt they can keep their workers while they restructure. Did you know that auto manufacturing in non-union states is EXPLODING!!!
The auto makers need to LEARN TO COMPETE!
You wouldn't be in favor of bailouts to the horse & buggy makers...would you????
Proud 2 b liberal said 11/21, 08:43 AM
I am not going to get into a discussion here about whether or not to bail out the auto industry. It is for another debate and has extensively been talked about on this site. But your assertion that no child goes hungry is so far off the mark that it scares me. Pick up any newspaper. Here is a quote from the dept of agriculture this week and reported in Newsday (not even one of those liberal bastions). "Some 691,000 children went hungry in America sometime in 2007, while close to one in eight Americans struggled to feed themselves adequately even before this year's sharp economic downturn, the Agriculture Department reported yesterday." Soup kitchens cannot keep up at the moment, I have friends working in church food pantries that have told me that for the first time the shelves are EMPTY! A single meal a day for a growing child is not enough. I would not want my kids to go to bed without a decent dinner, would you?
Not everyone on welfare is a welfare queen. And there are not tons of jobs in every field as you suggest. Not every one of those 6% has chosen to be unemployed. You are not seeing the economic situation as it really is.
10acousD said 11/21, 10:09 AM
ok...i see you are offering NO SOLUTIONS to the topic: the best way to reform welfare.
you also make some rookie mistakes. Yes, on a survey some families say they "struggle to feed their families". But what you discount are the many other studies that show that our "poor" tend to have: cable tv, cell phones, cars, money for cigarettes, money for alcohol, etc...
So it isn't that they CANT feed their families it is just they are living beyond their means!
Churches and nonprofits who feed the hungry ALWAYS find a way. They always get the donations necessary. By forcing someone to physically go get a meal (rather than just reloading a food stamp debit card) we make them a bit uncomfortable. Maybe that is a good thing? maybe that will inspire them to get a 2nd job or worker harder to advance.
Our current welfare system makes it TOO EASY for lazy people to abuse the system.
Go look in any paper in any city. You will see TONS OF JOBS! Jobs for all skill levels!
I worked 2 jobs and raised a family all thru graduate school. NO EXCUSES!
We are enabling the next generation to rely on govt for everything.
REFORM WELFARE!
REWARD WORK!
HELP THE TRULY NEEDY
Proud 2 b liberal said 11/21, 10:33 AM
You are talking about a small subset of poor in this country. Trying to live beyond their means? Is having a roof over one's head or heat in the winter asking for the world? What kind of person are you? So you see a paper full of jobs. what are we talking about, 100, 200, 500? Lets take New York city, with its 7 million people. If only 1% are out there looking for jobs, that is 70,000. Do you see 70,000 jobs in the paper? That would be one heck of a big paper.
You want answers? Well, there are no sure fire ways to attack the issue but it starts with education. Get to kids early enough and show them there is a way out. That they can have a future that is better than that on welfare. Make sure they know that if they want to go to college it is there for them. Make sure that minimum wage is high enough to be able to feed a person and still have a roof over their head. Make sure that everyone has health insurance so they can get the medical care they need so that the borderline disabled can work. Put a bit of sense into a system and you can get so much more out.
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Short of that, put them to work...we could use a good bit of trash collection along the sides of highways. We could line welfare recipients up on the border to secure our sovereignty. We could make them perform in circus acts for our amusement. Send them to Afghanistan to find Obama bin Laden. For every illegal mexican't that we deport, there is another new job. Medical Testing - PETA will be happy 'cause no more animals are harmed. Sell them into the human sex trade. I here the A-rabs are paying good money for a white who-er.
FrankMonkey | 11/20/08
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You're just not funny Monkeyman. Yes, good name as you seem to have many things in common with lower primates. Maybe you neocons should all be off in Iraq, as you seem to be the ones who started the war and are determined to continue it. Here is the reality. Without a safety net you end up in a society with a huge underclass, with little education and no chance for to raise their station in life. Without food children cannot learn. Without housing, children cannot learn. These children become young people, many of whom resort to crime. So we put them in prison. The prisons get more and more crowded and the amounts we pay to imprison petty criminals goes through the roof. We are supporting them anyway. For their whole lives. In Scandinavia there is a safety net that it perhaps more than should be there, but there is very little crime. All children are fed. The literacy rate is up around 97%. They make those getting public assistance work, but they provide adequate childcare for working mothers. It works. Our system does not, but removing it entirely without a good replacement that meets the needs of the people is barbaric.
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/20/08
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It is so sad that we are unable to get any intelligent conservatives on this site. There were one or two at one point but they are gone (except occassionally swdowning who can make some reasonably good points but is rarely here). Now we are left with really crass individuals who stoop to racist and obscene posts or just downright ugly ones as FrankMonkey above. Are there any smart conservatives any more or have they all become Obama supporters?
cranky and tired | 11/20/08
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I would like a definition of REAL disabilities
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/20/08
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10 does make some decent points... but P2b's line "Unless you mandate good and safe childcare for all children then you cannot expect that mother to go back to work" hits home.
JustBlue | 11/20/08
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Frankmonkey, how much thought do you put into each post? zero? Are you actually dead while your fingers are still responding to random charges your spinal cord is sending somehow?
Your God(ess) | 11/20/08
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"Maybe you neocons should all be off in Iraq, as you seem to be the ones who started the war and are determined to continue it.": I find it hopelessly, hopeless because the liberals would rather point a finger than acknowledge the reality of the situation (I personally think that they are too high to do so), ironic that the very face from which Proud2BLiberal says these sort of inaccuracies behind is that of Hillary Clinton, who at one point one was one of the wars biggest supporters!! It just makes me laugh, that's all.
RUSH for 2012 | 11/21/08
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She voted for the war. As did many. But it was your very incompetent administration who presented all this so called evidence (lies) that there were WMD that was the reason for the vote. Please do not try to rewrite history. The Iraw war was the brainchild of the Bush/Cheney circus. So keep laughing 2012. Glad you are so easily amused.
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08
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REAL disabilities are: -severe mental handicaps -a person w/ no arms or legs Short of that....you can do SOMETHING. Lost your legs in the war? get a desk job. Your 35 year old son is mentally ill? get him a job bussing tables. We have too many ABLE BODIED people just sitting on their BUTTS for DECADES! We need tough love from the free market in both the labor and product markets.
10acousD | 11/21/08
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Who is to judge what a severe disability is? And as for getting your 35 year old mentally ill son a job bussing tables, sorry but that job has already been filled by an MBA who can't find any other work right now. And of course if he gets a job bussing tables, he will probably make just enough to be kicked off the roles of those eligible for govt healthcare, but not be able to get private insurance due to a pre-existing condition. His minimum wage busboy position surely will not offer benefits. Now your mentally ill child cannot afford his medication. Sweet, You are right that there are some able bodied people out there getting aid, and that should be dealt with. But not by the drastic steps you outline.
Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08
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Socialism, such as is the democrat platform, will create a two class system. The wealthy elite and the very poor. Proven throughout history. Conservatism provides for a wide spread of success based upon each individual effort, luck, hard work and smarts. Unless you are lazy and stupid, where would you rather be?
thegreatnate001 | 11/21/08
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"We could make them perform in circus acts for our amusement" That's what I'm talkin ' bout. Frank may be the smartest guy on this site. Cranky and Tired is a little b-i-t-c-h and probably another homosexual agent of the new nazi socialist democrat party of america.
thegreatnate001 | 11/21/08
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Proud, you ignorant s-l-u-t. Only a dumb girl could be so silly. Go back and cook my dinner, b-i-t-c-h. If you are actually male, say hi to your boyfriend for me.
FrankMonkey | 11/21/08
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The best way to reform welfare is to kill all liberals.
Weeklycigar | 11/21/08
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we need to make sure the truly needy get help ========== we need to make sure the lazy bums get kicked off the welfare rolls =================== we need to REFORM the people and move them towards FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE.
10acousD | 11/21/08
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I was agreeing with you 10, until the point where you said that no child goes hungry in this country. I have worked with church groups in New Mexico and you have no idea the kind of poverty I have seen. And these were people who wanted to work, many who did work minimum wage jobs. these are people suffering from malnutrition because the little food they had went to their kids. There was no cable TV there or cell phones. Maybe a 20 year old car but its darn hard to live in New Mexico and find a job when you have no car. Alcohol is sometimes the way to fight their depression and must be addressed in some way. You speak of a subset of welfare recipients who misuse the system. I agree that something should be done. But these things must be done on a case by case basis, and you are being far too rigid.
Texasdonkey | 11/21/08
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I was agreeing with you 10, until the point where you said that no child goes hungry in this country. I have worked with church groups in New Mexico and you have no idea the kind of poverty I have seen. And these were people who wanted to work, many who did work minimum wage jobs. these are people suffering from malnutrition because the little food they had went to their kids. There was no cable TV there or cell phones. Maybe a 20 year old car but its darn hard to live in New Mexico and find a job when you have no car. Alcohol is sometimes the way to fight their depression and must be addressed in some way. You speak of a subset of welfare recipients who misuse the system. I agree that something should be done. But these things must be done on a case by case basis, and you are being far too rigid.
Texasdonkey | 11/21/08
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then the family in new mexico should MOVE! the constitution doesnt guarentee you the right to find a job in the city you pick!======================we have jobs ALL OVER THE NATION! ============ If you look at the big city newspapers in New mexico you will find jobs galore in the classifieds!..................... And unless those people showed you their checkbooks you dont know what they spend their $ on.
10acousD | 11/21/08
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I find this statement Ironic: "Kids today have NO FEAR of dropping out of school. They turn 18 and already know the system and how to take, take, take." The kids I know have a HUGE fear of dropping out of school. I don't know where YOU are from, or what kind of kids you know, but the kids I know are extremely stressed about getting into Harvard or whatever... KIDS? More like adults... Who were the people who got the huge debt? Adults. Isn't borrowing just taking without giving? YES! How ironic... However, I do agree that welfare should really get people aimed toward rebuilding their lives, but I disagree a bit with how you say to do it. First, the drug thing. I think if the person tests positive, he/she should be treated like a drug addict and have to sign a contract that would set very strict guidelines for him/her so that he/she can get off drugs and get a job and so become a respectable person again. And as for the 5 year rule, I think instead of a strict number of years, the time to stop, if ever, should be when the person has not been able to show any sign of improvement or anything, or if the person has been able to really rebuild their lives and become independent. I also think that from then on, there should be annual checkups and the like, so that the person can get more help quickly if he/she falls into a rough time again rather than saying no more help for a certain period of time. Unforeseen difficulties DO arise pretty often. I also agree with the counseling thing, but some people may be, well, insulted a bit, and so I think it shouldn't really be mandatory, but just strongly recommended. And when I say strongly, I mean STONGLY!!!!! When people are in need, they can act a bit stupid, so I think things should be a bit... well, suited to each person's needs.
Your God(ess) | 11/20/08
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