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Privatize education. The problem with education is not very hard to understand. Look at it! It's as if the U.S.S.R. took over America's educational system. There is no motivation for the teachers to perform better, if they do they will be making the same as the slob teaching across the hall from them. There is no accountability, meaning that they are practically un-fireable if they are lousy. And to add to this accountablity, there is no accountability with the way that they spend the money - so the administrators are always seen taking the largest cut and spending it on lunches, gifts, and furnishings for their offices. Privitize the educational system and we will light a fire under their butts. If they are not willing to shape up, there is certainly a private school out there willing to perform the same job, for the same money, and do it better. Competition is what makes America great.

RUSH for 2012 | 11/21/08

I think the main problem is on the teachers' end. Hear about what is going on in Washington D.C.? The district educator lady or whatever you call her is trying to eliminate tenure to get rid of the bad teachers. Personally, I think it is an okay idea, but in the long run, I'd like to see tenure again. I do see the need to get rid of the bad teachers and all that, but what I want to know is why the bad ones didn't get weeded out before their tenure. What happened?

Your God(ess) | 11/21/08

It's just a lazy system Godess. Nothing more can explain it. Put the system into the free market and, just like anyone else who has to produce or lose their job, you will see the public education system shape up.

RUSH for 2012 | 11/21/08

You can see how well privatizing the youth prison system out in Texas went. Child abuse running unchecked. Sounds super to me. Privitization is not the answer to everything. About tenure, it does not really work. The idea was to keep good teachers. Of course once you had tenure, you could sit back and do nothing for the rest of your career. I spent most of my career as a professor and have seen more than my share of dead wood sitting around waiting for retirement. I loved having tenure but I think for the most part it is a lousy idea.

Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08

I you are comparing our public education system to prison, our nations children to prisoners, then, WTF? As much as I would like to compare the public education system to prison, that is a faulty comparison, a fallacy. Privitize the system and you will see improvement in it.

RUSH for 2012 | 11/21/08

I am not comparing schools to prisons. i am talking about abuses that happen at times in the private sector. I am 100% for public schools. But public or private, it won't matter if students and their families are not engaged in the process. Privitization addresses none of the issues we were talking about above. Many of the problems mentioned above were caused by cost cutting measures, and private sector schools will definitely be all for cost cutting at the students expense.

Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08

I don't see how you can advocate using the Free Market for schooling 2012... It is just silly. Private schools cost a LOT, and if you want everyone in the U.S. educated, the Free Market will do the opposite... The thing about tenure, though, is that it offers some protection. I think it should be easier to boot the teacher, but still offer protection from discrimination and stuff. So how I would set it would be if the teacher has become visibly less able, or less effective, then the teacher could get the boot, but other than that, the teacher can pretty much stay. It may also be worthwhile to note that there could be some sort of "hypocritical" clause that says if there are other teachers slacking off, but only some get the boot, then there should be some sort of investigation or something. That way, it would be fair and bad teachers could kiss their paychecks goodbye.

Your God(ess) | 11/21/08

ineresting to note that 10acousD has nothing more to say. That's rather thin. The "free market" for education helps parents who know what they want and can afford it (e.g. private schools in Switzerland) as well as church / denominational sponsored schools. Outside of the US the US school system is a joke because qualified education in the US takes place in top colleges and universities only. And students from overseas countries know it. But public grade schools and high schools ? forget it. The result: At least two generations are lost already. And the more the so called creationists succeed with - possibly - influencing public education, the farther the US will fall behind.

Erich | 11/21/08

I believe that we should have a true science curriculum. If you want to teach creationism, save it for home and sunday school. If we want to be able to compete with the world in the sciences, teach evolution in the schools.

Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08

P2bl, as you say. How about some minor rephrasing: "Evolution" need not be taught, because it is not a science by itself. All that needs to be taught is natural sciences, physics, chemistry, biology on the technical side accompanied by the liberal arts. You will not mind the term "liberal" in this context, because you understand the relevance of the term. Others will understand it as well but they hate it like the devil hates "blessed water."

Erich | 11/21/08

how very true erich.

Proud 2 b liberal | 11/21/08

It is not entirely true that all public schools fail miserable. There are some that really do well. The only problem is that to get to those schools you need to live in communities that have very high standards of living (ie. you need to be rich). Another country whose educational system that is falling appart (or so I hear) is Japan. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I hear a lot of students are NOT doing well...

Your God(ess) | 11/21/08

#10, I'm very sympathetic with your problem description. As far as lower grade kids are concerned, it must be the parents who have to be accountable. (B.O.: fathers need to turn off the TV) . Where the parents are the problem, society really gets into trouble, because neither private education (parents can't afford it or have no interest) nor public education (no capacities, no legal titles) work. What can be done to develop/educate this "unused" human potential? The nation really is in desperate need of an intellectually qualified youth. If nothing is done, we merely see the development of a "prerevolutionary proletariat" in a Marxist sense.

Erich | 11/21/08

Rush is right about one thing. If these teachers were part of a company they would have to have results to keep their jobs. We have all had those crappy teachers who do not give a damn about any students individual problems. I think that our system is made to have a large part of the population kept stupid. Why else would we still have ghettos in America? The capitalist system needs people to work crappy jobs. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. Hey Rush, how about private consultants coming into failing school systems and axing the low life teachers who are just in it for a paycheck? Also what is with student government? What a sham and waste of money. ADMINISTRATORS eat up so much taxpayer money and they are the real scum of the Earth. Let me tell you I live in one of the lowest ranked and largest school districts in the nation. Clark County NV is the number 5 largest district in the nation yet it is ranked 47 out of 50. Also if you come here and see the schools, they are beautiful, modern and new. Too bad they have a bunch of low life scum teachers with ZERO accountability.

ReVoluTionNow! | 11/21/08

Who here has seen the movie IDEOCRACY?

ReVoluTionNow! | 11/21/08

You have a point Rev. I'm not going to imply that you agree with me on this, but if you were to issue wager checks for the amount of money spent on each child in our public school system, and then let the people spend it in the educational market, I'm sure that the Administrators in all of this public education mess would stop waisting all of that money on themselves, and start putting it to the use that it was meant for: EDUCATING AMERICA'S KIDS. In fact, they would have to because there would be so many other schools out there willing, and able, to stream line their cost effectiveness, while providing a solid education, that if they didn't they would go out of business. That is how the free market works my friends. It's all about supply and demand.

RUSH for 2012 | 11/22/08

Here is where you are wrong 2012. You go by the assumption that all businesses are ethical and efficient. Most are not. Businesses tend to try to cover up their inadequacies. In many cases, businesses are motivated more by money than by the welfare of kids, and when things are not working, they will do their best to hide it for as long as possible. . And Rev, most people i know who have gone into teaching want to be there, and they are doing it to make a difference. The percentage of really bad teachers is small. Except maybe in your county which is sad. But under the failing school system I would bet that their are scores of dedicated teachers working under trying circumstances. How do you feel about trade schools? I brought my kids up for the most part in Europe where trade schools are a big thing. The idea that not everyone is destined for an academic degree, but a good trade school can set them on the road to a decent career. Although my son is currently at U Copenhagen, his best frriend is in electrician school, a 3 year school which is part time appreticeship. When he gets out he will be a master electrician. not a bad deal.

Proud 2 b liberal | 11/22/08

The problem with the European schools, however, is that they divide the kids up at age 11 into the "smart," "not-so-smart," and the "stupid." Personally, I don't think people would really know how smart a kid is at age 11, and I think that is much to soon to start dividing people up. I really find that archaic and stupid. However, in the U.S., it seems we divide our kids up much sooner by money. The rich go to rich private schools, the poor go to awful public schools, and the middle class go to decent public schools. That gives the rich a nice educational advantage over pretty much everyone.

Your God(ess) | 11/22/08

After writing the above, however, I think there is a big bright side to all this. More Americans than ever are getting a college education and are getting actively involved in their society. Not only that, but we all recognize the need to improve our primary and secondary educational systems so that even more people will have the option of attending a university to receive a superb, well-rounded, and (to the person in question) enjoyable education. Despite all its flaws, our educational system is really not that bad when you compare it to the past.

Your God(ess) | 11/22/08

I can see how trade schools could be abused, the students, many times minorities, may be encouraged, pressured more towards going to them - it happened in California during the Chicano Civil Rights era of 1960. But, I can't help but think that Proud is right, If you develop trade schools many students will find themselves with a skill that they would otherwise not have through the failed educational system. And Proud, you in fact make my point when you point out that not all businesses are ethical. In the capitalist system this is what drives companies to get better, namely the unethical factor of "greed." In an openly competitive system, if you want to win out in the greed war you need to provide the public with the best brand. So in fact, it is this unethicallness that will drive the educational system to new heights. That's my take on it.

RUSH for 2012 | 11/22/08