yngster said 03/01, 12:41 PM
Bill Clinton is totally sociopathic. He seems to have many of the symptoms.
Save-AmeriKa said 03/01, 01:52 PM
As I agree with you that Bill Clinton does show some of the symptoms, there are a few that are particular to a sociopath that he lacks.
He does exhibit some superficial charm, poor judgment, and failure to learn by experience. But these traits can be found in any person. The definition of a sociopath is someone who exhibits chronic immoral and antisocial behavior. Though Clinton has exhibited these before he has not presented chronic behavior.
The traits that he does not exhibit are clear signs that he is not a sociopath. The biggest indicator is antisocial behavior, which Clinton does not exhibit. Many people have commented on his presence in a room and his social abilities. Another indicator is a failure to follow a life plan, and as we all know he fulfilled his plan to become president and also accomplished a great deal throughout his life.
Third, most sociopaths have a history of substance abuse. Which Clinton does not have a history of.
yngster said 03/01, 02:20 PM
1)Although sociopathy is based on anti-social behavior, some of them do not exibit that type of behavior. I personally know a common sociopath who is the life of the party. Remember... sociopaths are likeable people.
2)The biggest fact that I have is that a whitness saw the two of them swinging during the 80's. What type of couple shares spouses with other people. Well the answer is, a couple that does not truly love each other does that. What type of couple does not truly love each other. A sociopathic couple. You see, sociopaths have a distorted view of love. They don't seem to love people the way a normal human being would. Bill has a distorted view of love.
Save-AmeriKa said 03/01, 02:58 PM
yngster your personal relationships do not hold up against the facts. These symptoms that I have listed are commonly used to define a sociopath by many doctors. They originated in the Mask of Sanity by Hervey Cleckly. Which in his description he clearly points out that sociopaths have antisocial behavior.
I think your observation of "swinging" could be distorted. The Clinton's personal experiences our hard to judge because we all do not know what they are/were thinking. Many swingers might be in an open relationship which involves sex with other people. This situation could have been merely about the sexual encounter and not about Love. Also your narrow minded definition of love is distorted. No one person can define Love or what Love means to another person. So saying that Clinton has a distorted view of Love is a distorted opinion of Love in general.
Also challenging the title of the debate "In my Opinion, Bill Clinton is a sociopath". You have not presented any hard evidence of Clinton being a sociopath. So I ask, what evidence or facts do you have? Besides your own unreliable personal opinion.
yngster said 03/01, 03:35 PM
The fact is sociopaths engage in risky sexual behavior. The swinging can be classified as risky. If you share your wife than the fact is that is not the typical human biengs idea of love. Plus, they both had other relationships, not just anomyus sexual encounters and they were O.K. with each other having other relationships. Sociopaths don't have shame. On one occasion bill stated that he was proud of his administration and that he wasn't ashamed of anything he did while he was in the whitehouse. Another major symptom of sociopathy is enslaving victums. Ed Wiley is an example of victum that Bill enslaved. The fact is, Ed Wiley was under the impression that Bill would help him out of his financial trouble if he helped Bill get into the whitehouse. Ed Wiley killed himself because he couldn't get out of his financial trouble. Bill had the power help Ed but he didn't follow through on his promiss. Speaking of promisses. sociopaths lie pathologicaly. Bill didn't make good on more than 50% of his campaign promisses. He lied through his teeth to get into the Whitehouse. Health Care is an example of a promiss that Bill lied to people about.
Save-AmeriKa said 03/01, 05:55 PM
yngster you state that sociopaths do not need to meet all of the criteria. But if there is no evidence to meet any of the criteria then you have nothing and thus far you have proven nothing.
As for Bill Clinton being ashamed of anything. That is something no one can decipher from words alone. Because that is feeling that Clinton would have by himself. But I distinctly remember Clinton apologizing on TV for being ashamed of the Monica incident.
You also stated that Clinton didn't accomplish more than 50% of his campaign promises. But I implore you to find a president in the last 50 years who has met all of their campaign promises. You also stated that this is caused by pathological lying. But this is untrue this is merely politics.
The second biggest symptom after antisocial behavior is "semantic dementia". Which means saying one thing and doing another. Which means he would have to not fulfill all of his promises.
Your definition of a sociopath is flawed because it leaves room for many exceptions and interpretations of definitions. By your standards just about any person could be a sociopath.
Good points PhilSandifer. I think thus far I have shown that yngstr's diagnosis is incomplete through his lack of content and factual information. He lacks any hard evidence or examples of why Bill Clinton would meet this criteria at all. He is not a pathological lier, or have a parasitic lifestyle. So those two are out.
Save-AmeriKa | 03/01/08
Report Offensive CommentThey do not need to have all of the symptoms. Some of that stuff does not apply. There are different types of sociopaths. Bill is probalbly common. A parasitic lifestyle would apply to an alienated or dysocial sociopath.
yngster | 03/01/08
Report Offensive CommentAnd I am now casting my vote for Save-AmeriKa - the complete failure to work linearly through the actual definition of sociopath kills the argument on the face of it.
PhilSandifer | 03/01/08
Report Offensive CommentJust about any person can be a sociopath? According to Dr. Marth Stout's Book, "The Sociopath Nex Door", 1 in 25 Americans are sociopathic.
yngster | 03/01/08
Report Offensive CommentHer book also states that most professional actors and politicans are sociopaths.
yngster | 03/01/08
Report Offensive Commentyngster - Regardless, the proper definition of sociopathy comes from the DSM-IV. You did not address this at all, and in essence used a non-standard definition of the term.
PhilSandifer | 03/02/08
Report Offensive Commentyngster, the debate is not on how many people are sociopaths, it is if Bill Clinton is a sociopath. You stated that 1 in 25 are sociopaths. Thats 4 in a 100, making a 4% chance that Bill could be a sociopath. As I have proven he is in the 96% of people who are not sociopaths.
Save-AmeriKa | 03/02/08
Report Offensive CommentMaybe this debate was a mistake. I still think that there is a good chance that clinton is sociopathic but it is impossible to prove that without knowing him personally or without meeting with him like a phycologist would.
yngster | 03/02/08
Report Offensive CommentI am a phycology major and based on his actions there is at least grounds for suspicion.
yngster | 03/02/08
Report Offensive CommentMy generation as a whole doesn't spell very well because we grew up with microsoft word and spell check.
yngster | 03/05/08
Report Offensive CommentPlease keep it clean. Bad words will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.
This year, close to 90 ships have been seized in and around the Gulf of Aden, more than triple the number of 2007
(Jason R. Zalasky / US Navy / EPA )
Because I aim to be helpful to the debaters, here is what, in my view, each side needs to establish. yngstr must establish that Clinton meets a sufficient number of the criteria for the DSM-IV for sociopathy. Save-AmeriKa must, in contrast, show that yngstr's diagnosis is incomplete. The larger burden of proof here is therfore on yngstr - if he does not establish the meeting of all three of the DSM-IV criteria (I will take as read that Clinton is over 18) than his argument is kaput on the face of it.
PhilSandifer | 03/01/08
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