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I think many might 'feel' as Rightonthispoint does, however, his entire case is predicated upon unsubstantiated, extreme claims. "The ONLY people for the job are..." A strong opinion no doubt, but a weak argument.

Kristoff88 | 03/10/08

I agree with Kristoff88 and for some reason this arguement looks stangely the same as rightonthispoint's last one witht he same title. WHy did he put the same argument up for debate twice?

shrek | 03/10/08

To any comment posters, I wanted you to know that I did not put this argument up twice. I don't know if both people challenged me at the same time or what, but I only put it up once, but have to debate it twice. BTW, please commenters such as Kristoff, I am a woman, I'm not a "his". Visit my profile. Also, where did I say "The ONLY people for the job are?" Remember, I'm constructing an argument, which may or may not reflect my personal opinions FYI. Thanks for participating in this spirited debate. From: Rightonthispoint

Rightonthispoint | 03/10/08

To any comment posters, I wanted you to know that I did not put this argument up twice. I don't know if both people challenged me at the same time or what, but I only put it up once, but have to debate it twice. BTW, please commenters such as Kristoff, I am a woman, I'm not a "his". Visit my profile. Also, where did I say "The ONLY people for the job are?" Remember, I'm constructing an argument, which may or may not reflect my personal opinions FYI. Thanks for participating in this spirited debate. From: Rightonthispoint

Rightonthispoint | 03/10/08

OK, point proven. Something in my computer enters things twice. I don't know how to change it as I'm not too computer savvy. Sorry bout that. ROTP

Rightonthispoint | 03/10/08

OK, point proven. Something in my computer enters things twice. I don't know how to change it as I'm not too computer savvy. Sorry bout that. ROTP

Rightonthispoint | 03/10/08

My apologies for misquoting you and for assuming gender, ROTP. What you actually say on line five of your opening statment is, "The only people with the experience for the job..."

Kristoff88 | 03/11/08

No prob, Kristoff, see ya on another issue! Also, I think my life's experience argument got lost in the experience part my opponent jumped on. Whoever wins, I think we have three excellent candidates who will do better than the sitting President. I'm just busy debating issues that I think I can create arguments to for...fun! ROTP

Rightonthispoint | 03/11/08

The person you're referring to Tickers was not David Trimble, but was John Hume who won the nobel peace prize. He said this about the work Hillary did in Ireland FYI: "I can state from firsthand experience that she played a positive role for over a decade in helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland??? Anyone criticizing her foreign policy involvement should look at her very active and positive approach to Northern Ireland and speak with the people of Northern Ireland who have the highest regard for her and are very grateful for her very active support for our peace process" so to say that her contribution was not valued is not a correct fact. Richard Holbrook, architect of the Dayton accords said this about her work in Kosovo: "After visiting refugees and gaining a first-hand assessment of the situation, the First Lady had intense talks with President Gligorov and Prime Minister Georgievski. In these talks, one in the Presidential Palace, another in the residence of the American Ambassador, Christopher Hill, Mrs. Clinton pressed the Macedonian government to fully open the border so that Kosovar Albanian refugees could flee the war zone to safety." These are just a few examples. I could quote more. She DOES have foreign AND domestic experience.

Rightonthispoint | 03/11/08

The person you're referring to Tickers was not David Trimble, but was John Hume who won the nobel peace prize. He said this about the work Hillary did in Ireland FYI: "I can state from firsthand experience that she played a positive role for over a decade in helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland??? Anyone criticizing her foreign policy involvement should look at her very active and positive approach to Northern Ireland and speak with the people of Northern Ireland who have the highest regard for her and are very grateful for her very active support for our peace process" so to say that her contribution was not valued is not a correct fact. Richard Holbrook, architect of the Dayton accords said this about her work in Kosovo: "After visiting refugees and gaining a first-hand assessment of the situation, the First Lady had intense talks with President Gligorov and Prime Minister Georgievski. In these talks, one in the Presidential Palace, another in the residence of the American Ambassador, Christopher Hill, Mrs. Clinton pressed the Macedonian government to fully open the border so that Kosovar Albanian refugees could flee the war zone to safety." These are just a few examples. I could quote more. She DOES have foreign AND domestic experience.

Rightonthispoint | 03/11/08

I'm not referring to Hume, I'm referring to Trimble, who shared the nobel peace prize with Hume following the good friday agreement, the source was the Daily Telegraph, which had not when I read the article included comments from Hume (although this is what happens when Hume responds to comments by Trimble in a British newspaper by releasing a statement via the Clinton campaign in America) Your claim that Trimble didn't win the Nobel Peace Prize suggests that you haven't actually researched the topic beyond the statement released by the Clinton campaign. I never stated that Hillary did not play a positive role in the Northern Ireland peace process, but that is not the same as playing a pivotal role, and is certainly not the same as playing the 'commander in chief' role. It's also important to realise that the statements of Hume and Trimble are not actually contradictory - Trimble states that Hillary was not key to the process, Hume that she played a positive role and was supportive. The history of the Northern Ireland peace process recognises Bill Clinton and George Mitchell as key figures, not Hillary. She cites Northern Ireland as an example of passing the 'commander in chief' test, but the roles she played in that process would seem to imply that the standard for passing the 'Commander in chief' test is somewhat low.

Tickers | 03/11/08

Did not mean to say Trimble did not share the Nobel peace prize, but let's be clear, whatever role Hillary played, which by all accounts was significant (according to all parties involved), coupled with her experience in Kosovo, Macedonia and the like are evidence she has the experience. True that Barack will only be judged should he actually get the job, but it is my contention that most American's do not feel as comfortable with his foreign policy experience as either John or Hillary. BTW, that was verified by phone calls I made to Mississippi just today, in addition to calls in Ohio, Wyoming and other places. I'm willing (and wanting) to be wowed should he win. BTW, congrats to him, he won Mississippi, even if it is another predicted victory. Did you see Pennsylvania is ahead by double digits for Hillary?

Rightonthispoint | 03/11/08

I find it amazing that you first imply that I misquoted Trimble and Hume, then just ignore the comments of Trimble and assert that all parties involved think Hillary's contribution was significant -the whole point I was making is that there is not universal agreement on this or any other issue that she has put forward on her foreign policy credentials. George Mitchell was the senior US peace envoy in the Northern Ireland peace process and has stated that she was 'not directly involved'. Andy Wood, who was the director of information for the UK government in Northern Ireland has said that she was overwriting her influence in the peace process. Hillary herself in her autobiography from 2003 does not portray herself as playing key part in the Irish peace process. Clinton is largely remembered in Northern Ireland for a very good 'teapot' speech she gave, which is somewhat ironic, given it was a fantastic speech - the kind that she now appears to lambaste Barack for.

Tickers | 03/11/08

Secondly you manage to use somewhat bizarre logic on polls again - you cite that some phone calls 'verify' that Obama doesn't have the support of people in Wyoming and Mississippi, but then both of these states turned out for Obama. Why if people were so universally concerned with Barack Obama would so many people be turning out to vote for him?

Tickers | 03/11/08

I feel like the ' lack of experience' is really a spin issue ( a non issue if you will ).[ How about voting for the issues!! ] Not the man / woman's image that they & their team have created / built up but the goals and projected plans of the individual & the team they will choose to work with. I feel like it is a classic situation of society choosing to focus on the wrong part of the equation. There are so many other factors involved. How can we make positive progress forward if we continue to focus on the ' non issues'/ spin type situations - which are generally designed to consume our focus. It works. WHY ? Because we let it. I think it is time to assess & fine tune the various aspects of the government - let's start by looking at the real issues.

Global_Citizen | 03/12/08

The fact is, Tickers that "so many people" aren't necessarily turning out to vote for Obama. Many people told me they weren't voting, were voting for McCain, or Hillary. Please don't get me wrong. Obama is an ambitious, intelligent, motivated, inspirational person. But...I just have to say that for the numbers I was given to call to "get out the vote", people told me straight up they would not vote for Obama based on his lack of experience, the fact that they don't know him, lack of foreign policy, (esp. concerns in Iraq or the economy), the race card or they just feel it is not yet his time. Please step out of your infatuation with the man and realize that there are older, experienced voters who have been down this road with other Presidential elections who have just as much a right to their opinion as me and you do. That my friend is the beauty of America. BTW, Mississippi has a majority of Afro-americans, if race weren't an issue, then why did they (75%) go for Obama? I'm sure I'll be attacked again, but I'm just telling you what the polls and the media is universally saying. Let's move on.

Rightonthispoint | 03/12/08

P.S. That covers democrats, republicans and independent Americans.

Rightonthispoint | 03/12/08

If experience is your benchmark, Obama has far more. He has been <b>elected</b> to office far more times than hillary Clinton, who was only elected twice. He has <b>served</b> in a legislature far more than Hillary Clinton as he served in Illinois for multiple terms. Being the wife of an elected official means Nancy Reagan, and Barbara Bush both have the same experience as Hillary Clinton. The experience beyond their shared experience is as a two term senator to New York. Obama is a one term senator to Illinois and a several term senator in the Illinois legislature. I coulnt that as far more experience than that gained by Clinton, Bush and Reagan. So she has 7 years experience in elected office. Let's be truthful here. The argument can be made that being the son of an multi-national family, and having lived overseas, gives Obama a unique take on foreign policy, much as McCain would probably have as the son of an admiral, assuming they moved with him as many military families do. As for the general election, Obama took the western states, which went to the Republicans, by a far higher vote count than McCain and Huckabee combined. Obama took teh deep south, which I find very telling. And this nonsense that he won because of the black vote in the south is ludicrous when compared to actual statistics. He won Biloxi, 71% white 19% black, Gulfport, 62% white, 33% black, Hattiesburg - almost evenly black and white. So that is a straw man argument as well. If anything, what I have seen, is women voting by gender. And that is wrong. Don't forget, there are still a lot of men, who believe women should be in the home. They won't vote for Hillary.

Segraves | 03/12/08

rightonthispoint, if you are going to chide people - tell the truth. Mississippi is not a majority black state. It has 4 congressional districts. 1 is 72$ white 27% black, 2 is 63% black 32% white, 3 which is roughly equal, and 4 which is 92% white and 3.2% black. It is subject to congressional oversight on apportionment. I am an older voter. I detest spin. Tell the truth or don't run a faceoff.

Segraves | 03/12/08

if you talk to the Irish you will also find that they credit her with getting women involved, appreciate her efforts, but ALL agree that there would have been a peace agreement with her or without her. She lectured to women at universities. She was not siting at the bargaining table. Does not count as experience in negotiating anything but possibly lunch. BTW I am also a woman so no gender bias here. This is politics, they are part of the world, what are they going to say - she was just Bill's wife (though some did). And she was only there 4 times and only once by herself, the rest of the time coming because her husband had to. I read the Irish papers to verify this information.

Segraves | 03/12/08