Philosophe vs IamFry
Putin is not a communist; he is an autocrat.
Philosophe said 03/13, 10:09 AM
Recent statements have been made describing Vladimir Putin as ushering in a new communist government in Russia. The evidence seems to disagree. According to TIME's Man of the Year article, Putin has given support to the Russian Orthodox church and is working to establish many pre-revolution institutions. According to Strobe Talbott, "Putin prides himself as a native son of St. Petersburg and a bearer of Peter the Great's legacy." An article in Atlantic Monthly characterized Putin as being being "the first true Christian head of state since the last czar, Nicholas II." It is thus my conclusion that Putin is turning back to a system that crushes opposition and silences critics while engaging in Patriotic Orthodoxy--defining the Russian state through patriotism and religion, and autocracy--taming wild Russia through the willpower of a strong man. Vladimir Putin is that strong man.
IamFry said 03/13, 04:25 PM
I disagree with the claim that people think Putin wants a communism. What they mean, I believe, is that he wants a return to the county when it was a communism in name, though not a true communism. Rule derived from religious principles is not an autocracy, but a theocracy, but it doesn't matter what you call it - autocracy, theocracy, communism; what Putin wants is a dictatorship. I believe that's what we ALL think - you, me, the people who say he wants a communism...
So if we can't argue about that, then here's what I'll argue: the claim that the Russian people long for, "the willpower of a strong man." First off, I'm not Russian. If you are, then I suppose you'll have a bit more credibility than me on the subject, but I can still argue a principle.
Garry Kasparov, a man I greatly admire, rejects the claim that the Russians NEED a Stalin-esque figure. He uses North Korea and South Korea as an example of how a democracy can thrive with a people who have a history of being 'ruled'. "The Other Russia" is a large-scale movement in Russia that opposes Putin's designs on dictatorship. The Russian people will eventually resist Putin.
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so autocracy, theocracy, and communism are one and the same huh. try telling a priest he's a communist, a communist he's a monarchist and a king he's a lowly subject of God. i think you'd get three black eyes.
MorgMcA | 03/13/08
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MorgMcA,I clearly didn't say that those were the same thing, I said that those 'words' were 'tags' that could be wrongly applied to the same thing. I think you're a great guy, and if you ever make it to the east coast, I'd love to hear your opinion, in person, on how I might be respected by various groups, and what physical damage might result.
IamFry | 03/14/08
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Wait... wrong thread, lol. He's referring to http://www.elephant-donkey.com/elephantdonkey/show/5041
IamFry | 03/14/08
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No reason to take debates personally, Morgan, that is, unless you have something personally against me, which can be resolved by way of an E-D charity boxing match!
IamFry | 03/14/08
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sorry i misunderstood. nothing personal taken nor intended to be given, IamFry, but i do enjoy adding a personal touch to a debate, it keeps them from sounding too aloof and wordy that's all. it would be my pleasure to meet you and discuss a number of things, on that coast, aimiably. personally i dont like seattle. new england doesnt attract me either however. i like virginia though. (remember keep the debate in the forum)
MorgMcA | 03/14/08
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bytheway IamFry is Iam your first name or is your forum name really a sentence.
MorgMcA | 03/14/08
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Kasparov is indeed a great man, I just wish he would be able to take power in Russia, which seems the only way he can do so is by force, and I think Putin is probably better at that.
base89 | 03/22/08
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Please keep it clean. Bad words will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.
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Let's not forget the consistent crackdowns in Chechnya, the arm flexing to western powers, the siding with Serbia to denounce the independence of Kosovo, and the assassinations of notable journalists and whistleblowers, most of which have been connected to Putin's Kremlin. He has defended people charged with murder, has continually snubbed his allies, and continues to control his government through large company ties and rhetoric. Putin is a dangerous man, of this there is no doubt.
J.A.B.C. | 03/13/08
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