ELEPHANT-DONKEY.com

FYI: In my argument the webstie filtered a four letter word that describes a forced sexual attack, you can probably work out what it is.

Tickers | 03/16/08

Oh, you mean "BILL".

Ariyel | 03/16/08

Hahahahaha!

Tickers | 03/16/08

I am Pro-Life however, returning to illegal abortion is not the answer. Abortion as a form of birth control should STOP NOW! If there is a medical problem a qualified doctor should have that procedure available. In a handful of cases, such as severe birth defects , incest or **** I could understand it. But, "Abortion on Demand" should not continue.

hmgirl53 | 03/16/08

definetly! abortion on demand IS NOT right. the only thing about the whole **** situation is that it is a major minority of all the womem who actually get an abortion. most of them are just "accidentally" pregnant and need a quick fix. if this is the right thing, then i want the country to be wrong. the movie "Juno" is a good example. she turns down the abortion, which can also just totally mess up your insides and leave you so messed up that you might not be able to have a baby again, and goes on to a planned adoption.

debatingforschool | 03/16/08

I believe abortion as a whole must stop. The majority of abortions continue to be for selfish reasons of convenience. Abortion due to birth defects comes far too close to genetic cleansing and is the proverbial slippery slope. Incest and **** are the two most emotionally-charged circumstances and thankfully rare (1% according to Tickers), however I cannot justify abortion for the crimes of the parent. When dealing with maternal and fetal health, a doctor should do everything they can to save both parties. We have come to the point where a 22-week baby can survive outside the womb, so carrying to full term isn't even necessary anymore for the emotional and woman's health cases. I try to keep in mind that the child is the one who pays the ultimate price for the crimes or indiscretions of his/her parents.

Ariyel | 03/16/08

I think to define abortions as a thing of convenience or as a 'quick fix' to me is just disappointing. Abortion is neither of those things. The quick fix is actually contraception - the few seconds it takes to put on a condom takes far less time and effort than to go to an abortion clinic. It's also rather helpful in preventing the spread of sexually transmitted diseases (a recent study showed that 1 in 4 US teen girls had an STD). The problem is that again in America there appears to be a fair amount of moral outrage about contraception too in certain areas.

Tickers | 03/16/08

I call the majority of abortions "convenience", not because they are quick and easy to obtain, but because they are used to eliminate the more difficult responsibilities that would normally follow intimate (I use this term because I figure that the true word would be blocked) contact. Yes, contraception will prevent pregnancy and STDs, but treating intimacy like a handshake in society isn't helping.

Ariyel | 03/16/08

Why do people keep referencing 'Juno' as an anti-abortion movie? She makes a CHOICE to keep it. Whereas most pro-life would want to refuse that choice entirely, in Juno she is given the option, and makes the conscious decision to keep her child. The movie is all about the choices people make in outstanding circumstances, not a manifesto against abortion. As for the Choice, I believe it is the woman's right to be knowledged in the subject, and make her choice within reason. But it's still her choice.

J.A.B.C. | 03/16/08

I've just read you're a baptist minister, I think we're unlikely to reach consensus here, but never mind. :) I think the treatment of intimacy in society is definitely a problem, but I think it's also coupled with the fact that we tend to hide from truly discussing issues with the young. This is why my opponent has cited a fictional film as some form of evidence to substantiate an argument on this issue - even though it isn't a pro life film, but a pro choice one, where the titular character chooses to have the child (and of course it's made up). From what I can gather there isn't the open and honest discussion in large parts of the world on the matters of sex, contraception, abortion and so on. Just as there aren't on issues such as guns, knives, alcohol and drugs. Sometimes it seems that adults spend so much time arguing over what to teach children that they seem to forget to actually teach them.

Tickers | 03/16/08

*The above was to Ariyel, who I also apologize to for being unable to read and confusing the word 'baptist' with the words 'baptist minister'. Tickers

Tickers | 03/16/08

I didn't mean that Juno is a pro-life or pro-choice film. i just simply used it as an example, even though it is fictional. i wasn't even trying to use it to voice my opinion, i just thought that it was an easy to understand example.

debatingforschool | 03/16/08

not trying to get sympathy or anything, but please. if you could just put whether you are pro-life or pro-choice at the top of your comment AND THEN state your opinion on the argument that would be great. i need to know this info for a school project. thanks!

debatingforschool | 03/16/08

Then I am confused as to why you reference (Juno), and what it becomes an example of, if not to support the argument that abortion is wrong. Your secondary assertion that abortions can 'totally mess up your insides' is also unsubstantiated by medical evidence - the minor risks include an infection, scarring on the uterus or weakening of the cervix, all are rare and all are easy to treat. Historically, however, before the legalisation of abortion the risks to women visiting 'back alley butchers' were quite large, since without the sterile surroundings of an operating theatre the chances of infection were much greater.

Tickers | 03/16/08

Tickers, no need to apologize; I take no offense to being mistaken as a minister :) I have to agree with you that, unfortunately, children are not being educated on the responsibilities associated with intimacy and I believe this is a parental failing. Too many parents have handed their children over to the government to teach what should be handled within the family.

Ariyel | 03/16/08

The Foster System in America needs to be fixed before I can really ever consider backing a "Stick 'em all in the System" position. Personally I believe that the woman in question should have a choice, and that they should weigh the decision very carefully.

Shamanic Enzan | 03/16/08

At this point, I don't think anyone cares what I have to say, but I have a quick opinion to make. I think that in this country, we are too quick to take a stance on every issue, Abortion being the biggest of all. I, for one, am undecided in my opinion on abortion, but I find that I am generally alone in that. I feel as though by putting a sticker on a person, saying "I'm pro-life" or "I'm pro-choice", it eliminates one's ability to think about the issue itself (in the same way that Dem. or Rep. does). If you have thought it through and can find an answer for yourself, then by all means go for it. But for others who aren't so sure deep down inside, it's okay to be undecided.

fortyfourth | 03/17/08

I think there is a definite problem when working out the role of the state in sexual education ??? around a third of schools in the US in 2002 stated that they had an abstinence only sex education programme, and since 1996 the US government has actually been awarding special grants for such initiatives (so for Democrats ??? it???s not Bush???s fault). To not teach the young the overall truth is dangerous, and leaves them vulnerable when they explore the sexual urges that will come to them as they grow up. I think for a large number of children in America, the family aren't teaching them and nor are the government.

Tickers | 03/17/08

Tickers, You discussed in an above comment how abortions were safer than giving birth. Medically, this may be the case. Psychologically, that is not the case. Out of all pregnancies,according to a study done by the University of South Carolina, only 1 in every 10 women say that their pregnancy was emotionally devistating to their life. The other 90% said it was ok or the greatest moment of their lives. Out of all abortions, 1 out of every 3 women say that their abortion was emotionally devistating. In some cases it is even reported a strong feeling of guilt, and the idea that they have betrayed the natural order of life and don't deserve to ever have a child again. (which, I, being a Pro-life supporter, strongly agree with) But my personal beliefs set aside, you can't focus only on physcial pain to support your arguement. Emotional pain has to be taken into consideration too, considering that the majority of people believe that an abortion should only occur if it is going to hurt the mother emotionally, like in the case of ****.

shrek | 03/17/08

However, despite what I believe, I feel that Tickers has made a far better arguement for his position. I will hold my vote until debatingforschools makes his/her third arguement. If it is a good one my vote goes to him/her, if not then you get it Tickers.

shrek | 03/17/08