Austhus said 11/13, 03:35 PM
Has anyone heard anything of any real substance from Ron Paul? I know his "grassroots" supporters are all over the Net, but the more I read about his policies the more I think the man is certifiably insane or looking for a power-grab using the uneducated as a rallying point.
Let's look at his major rallying point: abolishing the IRS. Sure, everyone hates paying taxes. The IRS makes us pay taxes, so everyone hates the IRS. So abolish the IRS and make people happy, right?
Except that our government would cease to function at all. Without the revenue, the U.S. government could barely afford to pay for it's electric bill, much less all the programs needed, such as Social Security, the Military, and a plethora of other programs.
Say what you will about "big government vs. small government," but eliminating the IRS won't solve any of that. It'll just make the government go broke while leaving millions of civil servants without jobs, making the unemployment rate skyrocket and plunging the U.S. even further into recession.
Also, what are his other stances? Does anyone know anything about him? What's his take on Iran, waterboarding, climate change? The free market can't fix all of that
HAHAHAOHWOW said 11/13, 04:21 PM
((First I'm playing devil's advocate - I think Ron Paul's internet supporters are hideous spammers.))
Ron Paul supports a modified "Fair Tax"/Sales Tax assuming the Federal Income tax is removed (which would go hand in hand with IRS deletion: I mean who would govern the tax collection process in the IRS's absence if we still had a FIT) Cite: Ron Pauls own words at http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul347.html
His views on iran and torture are easily findable on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul
His view on environmental protection is there, though it is not specific to "climate change"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Environmental_protection
Seems you should rephrase your argument. It does not support your stated premise that he has a "narrow minded" platform that "cannot win". You've just basically said that nobody can figure out where he stands. Ron Paul's positions are discernable with minimal research. Instead you should pose a new debate on whether the abolition of the FIT/IRS is good for America or not. It seems that is where you want to take the discussion.
Austhus said 11/13, 04:35 PM
Thank you for agreeing with me that his supporters are a little out there. I know his stances are easily searchable online and from his Web site, although the use of the publicly-editable Wikipedia on key figures such as Ron Paul are questionable.
All candidates have "ideas" and "plans" on multiple topics. That's standard fare you can get from the candidate Web sites. That being said, he doesn't seem to talk about much substance other than "get rid of the IRS." There are ideas and thoughts all over the place, but the only action I have heard he will take is related to tax policy. Even on the wikipedia pages cited, the IRS and tax plans are far more substansive than any other section.
For now, we have Mr. Paul's voting record as a hint, but those positions are just a record of how he feels about current plans. In order to be a serious candidate with any chance, he has to come up with his own plans to very real problems. This may be the election where political buzzwords such as "amnesty," "free market" or "judicial activism" alone won't cut it with most of the electorate.
HAHAHAOHWOW said 11/13, 07:00 PM
I would not equate Ron Paul with IRS over his position as the only Republican against the War on Iraq. He would support immediate withdrawal. However I disagree with your characterization of my citation to his stances. His constitutional positions there far outweigh his tax proposals.
Ron Paul has just as well articulated, if not more articulated, positions than the other candidates. The website I cited states many different bills and initiatives he has created, not just voted on.
Although Ron Paul may be characterized by the misbehavior of his supporters, his positions and plans for the government are discernible.
Austhus said 11/17, 04:00 AM
Forfeited Turn
HAHAHAOHWOW said 11/20, 04:00 AM
Forfeited Turn
American Independence and Sovereignty: So called free trade deals and world governmental organizations like the International Criminal Court (ICC), NAFTA, GATT, WTO, and CAFTA are a threat to our independence as a nation. They transfer power from our government to unelected foreign elites. The ICC wants to try our soldiers as war criminals. Both the WTO and CAFTA could force Americans to get a doctor???s prescription to take herbs and vitamins. Alternative treatments could be banned. The WTO has forced Congress to change our laws, yet we still face trade wars. Today, France is threatening to have U.S. goods taxed throughout Europe. If anything, the WTO makes trade relations worse by giving foreign competitors a new way to attack U.S. jobs. NAFTA???s superhighway is just one part of a plan to erase the borders between the U.S. and Mexico, called the North American Union. This spawn of powerful special interests, would create a single nation out of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico, with a new unelected bureaucracy and money system. Forget about controlling immigration under this scheme. And a free America, with limited, constitutional government, would be gone forever. Let???s not forget the UN. It wants to impose a direct tax on us. I successfully fought this move in Congress last year, but if we are going to stop ongoing attempts of this world government body to tax us, we will need leadership from the White House. We must withdraw from any organizations and trade deals that infringe upon the freedom and independence of the United States of America. all quotes from -Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas)
Migueld | 11/13/07
Report Offensive CommentI have to head home from work but i think i can again cough up some of his plans. check back before 10pm EST for my rebuttal.
HAHAHAOHWOW | 11/13/07
Report Offensive Comment"some people just don't want to be confused with facts that contradict their preconceived opinions or prejudices"-Geoff Metcalf The Ron Paul Revolution is real..........
Migueld | 11/13/07
Report Offensive CommentTexas Congressman Ron Paul is the only Republican candidate to advocate an immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, indeed, he is the only truly anti-war candidate of the frontrunners from either party. NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll "In general, do you approve or disapprove of the job that George W. Bush is doing in handling the situation in Iraq?" Disapprove - 68% Approve - 28% Not Sure - 5% "When it comes to the war in Iraq, which of the following statements comes closer to your point of view? The most responsible thing we can do is find a way to withdraw most of our troops from Iraq by the beginning of 2009. The most responsible thing we can do is to remain in Iraq until the situation in the country is stable." Withdraw most troops by 2009 - 55% Remain until country stable - 40% Unsure - 5% ABC News/Washington Post Poll Nov. 1-5, 2007 "All in all, considering the costs to the United States versus the benefits to the United States, do you think the war with Iraq was worth fighting, or not?" Not worth it - 63% Worth it - 35% Unsure - 2%
Migueld | 11/14/07
Report Offensive CommentThe majority of the governments revenue comes from other forms of taxation. If the income tax ceased to exist, we would return to around 2000-level revenues. Do some research before you spout of mindless rhetoric.
Consequentialist Libertarian | 02/21/08
Report Offensive CommentPlease keep it clean. Bad words will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.
This year, close to 90 ships have been seized in and around the Gulf of Aden, more than triple the number of 2007
(Jason R. Zalasky / US Navy / EPA )
here is his view on taxes: Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives. Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother???s payroll taxes by $40 a month or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains taxes and hire more employees, that tax cut is a good thing. Lower taxes allow more spending, saving, and investing which helps the economy ??? that means all of us. Real conservatives have always supported low taxes and low spending. But today, too many politicians and lobbyists are spending America into ruin. We are nine trillion dollars in debt as a nation. Our mounting government debt endangers the financial future of our children and grandchildren. If we don???t cut spending now, higher taxes and economic disaster will be in their future ??? and yours. In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply ??? making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to ???we the people.??? Worse, our economy and our very independence as a nation is increasingly in the hands of foreign governments such as China and Saudi Arabia, because their central banks also finance our runaway spending. We cannot continue to allow private banks, wasteful agencies, lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our ballooning budget. We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It???s called the Constitution of the United States. all quotes from -Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas)
Migueld | 11/13/07
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