The educational system needs reform.
arubz15 said 04/07, 09:35 PM
The public educational system in America was originally created with the intent of providing a basic education for people who would later work in the manufactoring industries. America is no longer a major manufactoring country, but rather a service based economy. The American educational system does not allow students to pursue their individual interests, but rather forces a basic knowledge of all topics. While this may seem usefull in life, it is not. An accountant does not use biology, and a biologist does not need calculus. Rather than create a rigid system used in public schools now, America should adopt a system which allow students to pursue their own interests. People tend to lose interest in education when they are forced to learn something. So rather than force students to learn topics, the school system should provide the resources and teacers necessary to allow students to pursue their own interests.
ilmaestro90 said 04/07, 09:44 PM
Although i agree with you to a certain extent, the fact of the matter is that the U.S. educational system needs reform but not in the way you are suggesting. Lets face the fact here not every high school student knows what the want to do with their lives, in fact I would say that the majority of them do not know what they want to do with their lives. So although the current educational system may "bore" some students, that is a lot better than hindering the minds and future of hundreds of thousands of American children.
arubz15 said 04/07, 10:38 PM
First, a reform would not "hinder" the minds of American children. Allowing students who desire to take advanced courses occurs in todays system, and would not be lost during a reform. Secondly, it is not only some students that see the system as a "bore". The current system does not allow students to advance as fast as they wish, leaving many stuck in classes which are not up to their full mental capability. The system also fails in attracting less motivated and/or neglected children. The public school system, especially in urban areas, lacks the ability to inspire students. When a student is failing, they are simply placed in a lower level course, rather than motivated to succeed. Most Americans grow up in urban areas, and therefore the system should not neglect the majority of students. Most of us can not afford to be placed in private boarding schools, so we rely on the public school system. I can not see why you think a reformation in the school system would "hinder the minds and future of hundreds of thousands of American children." Allowing student to pursue their own interests in school would allow them to freely discover what they're interests are.
ilmaestro90 said 04/08, 10:31 AM
I never stated that a reformation in the school system would hinder minds, bur rather the reform you are suggesting should take place would hinder minds. In today's America, a system that allow students to pursue their own interests may help the select few students who know what they want to do with their lives, but that will just deter the majority of students who do not know what they want to do with their lives. Also, if we allow high schoolers to pursue their own interests the majority of them will choose the interest of sports or music and will not help them in any way. The type of reformation that the U.S. public school needs is a vast change in the typical school day. Instead of just going from class to class absorbing the information that is being fed to us (but never really learning), the day should be filled with mind games of some kind that that get the student's brain and mind going, followed by a class solely on learning the proper way to communicate and establish a point a class about a topic of free choice then the rest of the day should be a seminar in which students and teachers discuss the topics of that day. This is the reformation that the school system needs.
arubz15 said 04/08, 12:49 PM
I'd have to argue that the current system already deters the majority of students from learning. You also are repeatedly mentioning "high school." Ironically, I never mentioned high school. Your system is very similar to mine (because its a mix of Joe and Amir's ideas). The school system should allow kids at a young age to explore various studies and discover what they are most interested it, rather than forcing them to learn. As the child grows older they should be taught how to apply their knowledge in real world situations. Our school system focuses too much on learning facts, but not how to use them. You mentioned that students would focus only on "music" and "sports." The system I propose does not allow students to drop all their classes in favor of these interests, but allows them to choose their classes based on their interests. If students were allowed to study the classes they desired, the majority of students would gain interest in school, not a "select few." Of course, basic topics such as math and science should be taught, but the students would now be able to focus their attention in a specific topic they were interested in.
ilmaestro90 said 04/10, 10:19 AM
So you are arguing that we should let children in 1st grade choose the subjects that they want to do. Then i cannot wait to hear about the latest mud eating and nose picking classes initiated in schools across the United States. Now, I think that it is pretty obvious that the current school system needs major reformation. The current school system is just force feeding kids a plethora of trivial information that they will never need in every day life. This is what causes the "boredom" that you speak of, not because the student is not being pushed far enough. What the school system needs is less classes involving force feeding facts, but rather more classes that are seminar like, in which children learn more about facts and topics through debates. These classes will push students farther and will let the child grow and flourish at their own rate in the school system. Instead of hindering the young minds of millions of students as your system is advocating for.
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Yes, I do agree with most of what you said. By "doing what you want" I didn't mean that one hundred percent. Obviously if a student wishes to harm another, or do drugs, or do something of that sort it should not be allowed. This is my fault for not articulating my point as accurately as possible. By doing what a student wants, I mean as far as career and class options. Public schools often lack many sufficient career options. I am currently a senior in high school that is located in one of the poorest cities in my state. I would like to study such concentrations as accounting, but these classes are taught on such a watered-down level because they were made as a class for those failing to pass in order to graduate. As far as privatization of the school system, I would like to see that, however, I do not see that as something that will happen in the near future, so I would like to see changes within our current system.
arubz15 | 04/07/08
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Arubz15, the sad fact of life is that "better schools" are placed in the areas where more taxes are paid. As long as the federal government is in control of everything, they have ulterior motives in distributing wealth in the areas of higher tax brackets. I too was from a poor area, a rural country school, where most kids went to trade school or focused on agriculture. But the changes you are seeking have to come from within the community, which means parents and students have to step up and take the initiative. Placing your faith in the government will always end up letting you down. Capitol Hill doesn't live in the poor communities. People such as Hillary and Obama talk about making everything better by fixing problems with the government. How can you expect this from people who have millions of dollars in the bank? But the problem is this, with all the collectivism in the past, with taxes going higher and higher, we have more problems than ever. The government can't fix everything. They are empty promises sent out to desparate people. Welfare is a good example. While yes charity is good and people somtimes need help, welfare in the manner we have today has led to a vicious cycle of dependence and lack of self-sufficiency. But as far as "change", just think about events in the past such as the Civil Rights movement. People like Martin Luther King Jr. who weren't politicians took an actual stand "against" the government to get the results that are needed. The government as a whole is corrupt, funds are squandered away, and it runs inefficiently. So to look for them to make positive changes in the education system will only lead to more problems. I only say all this because we come from similar backrounds. So before you vote for the first time, educate yourself in economics, don't depend on the government to fix our problems, take initiative in your community, and be careful in the "change" you seek from Washington. Good luck.
ShawnF | 04/08/08
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Wow... so apparently he didn't get the concept of choosing ur own courses, such as what types of history and what english classes to take, not "mud" classes
arubz15 | 04/10/08
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Apparently, you gave no point at all saying that...what you said was that your system would "allow them to choose their classes based on their interests" And in 1st grade the interest most children are not interested in math or science but rather playing around in dirt and mud.
ilmaestro90 | 04/10/08
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Man, do I hate it when people use the past participle as a direct object!!! Anybody else?
Bully Pulpit | 09/03/08
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Please keep it clean. Bad words will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.
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Yeah it took me 3 years after high school to finally decide what I wanted to do with my life. High school was nothing more than a time to socialize for me. But at the same time I was exposed to many aspects of prospective careers. While I hated math, I love the fact that I can do advanced mathematics, it makes me more self-sufficient. While I didn't like accounting, I'm glad I can budget my money and balance my finances (what little I have). I'm glad I had business law, now I can look at a contract and determine the legality of it. The list goes on and on. A fact of life people should get used to early is you can't always be entertained. While I agree some kids aren't challanged enough, this is due to public education, but more on that later. If I did what I "wanted" to do when I was 15-18, let's just say I probably would not have a diploma. While I agree our education system is faulty, more blame lies in the homes of the kids. You can have the greatest teachers, with an endless choice of study areas, but if the kid's life at home sucks and doesn't encourage education, it will eventually rub off. One option that needs to be available are larger subsidies for private school. Some states don't even offer them. If schools were all privatized, schools would be a lot more efficient and effective all while lowering taxes and lifting a burden of the state and federal governments. Our best option is really to stop looking at the federal government to fix our problems, because we know from countless examples in history they just aren't efficient. Comparing private industry to big government is like comparing the fuel efficiency of a Prius to a Hummer, but you didn't hear it from me!
ShawnF | 04/07/08
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