Barack Obama should give the nomination to Clinton so that she can win in November.
alexon96 said 04/15, 09:05 PM
Hillary Clinton will get a more majority of the people that Barack Obama.
dolebanana said 04/15, 09:50 PM
I have reasoned that Obama should not give the nomination to Clinton.
The majority of democrats support Obama over Clinton and a dropout would divide the party, making it harder to win a general election. According to a recent Gallup poll, 51% of democrats support Obama in comparison to the scant 40% that support Clinton. Moreover, the number is building. Another Gallup poll showed that 19% of democrats had switched from supporting Clinton to supporting Obama, in comparison to the 7% of democrats who switched the other way. Watching as Obama drops out would frustrate many Americans. A recent CNN poll showed that if Clinton were to be the nominee, a quarter of Obama supporters would travel to McCain's side, which would seriously damage the democrats chances in the general election.
alexon96 said 04/16, 03:11 PM
If Michigan and Florida would count, Obama will only be ahead of Clinton for the popular vote by about 350,000 votes. 10 more states will vote and the popular vote would change. By the electoral college rules, Clinton would have more points than Obama and that is what really counts in the general election in the fall. Super delegates should also decide on who they think will be the better president, not who the people vote for. That is what super delegates were created for.
Clinton would also win most of the key states which will put her in the lead if she was the nominee in November. Most of the presidential candidates won Pennsylvania if they became president. Barack Obama isn't in the lead in Pennsylvania.
The Gallup polls and any other polls are not supposed to be trusted. They don't use the majority of the people in the state. The Gallup poll showed that Obama was ahead by 5 points in the Texas Primary. But Hillary Clinton won the state's primary by more that 100,000 votes and by 4%.
dolebanana said 04/16, 07:53 PM
A number of problems with your argument:
First off, Michigan and Florida do not count so any resulting arguments you may have had off of that are null and void. Second, even if those did count, Barack Obama would only be ahead in popular vote by 350,000? That seems like a pretty significant number to me. Third, while you are correct that super-delegates should vote the way they feel is right, that does not matter in the slightest. The point of my argument is that if Clinton DOES win the nomination, McCain will win the general election because Obama supporters will switch to the opposing party. Fourth, we have no better source of information than the polls that are provided, so that is all we have to work with.
alexon96 said 04/18, 04:48 PM
The DNC chairman, Howard Dean said that they reserved hotels for Michigan's and Florida's delegates and he is also trying to get those two states to count. 350,000 is a big number, but 10 more states/ Puerto Rico and Guam still have to vote. That number will go into any direction. If Obama wins the nomination the same thing will happen. Clinton's supporters will vote for McCain. The polls are the only things we can trust on, which I also believe. But we cannot rely on them 100%. Like you said before 51% SUPPORT Obama and 40% support Clinton. The gap might be closer or farther. No one really knows.
dolebanana said 04/19, 08:01 AM
First of all, it really does not matter whether the delegates were going to count, or even should be counted. They are not counted. The 10 states remaining will go to Obama in landslides. Clinton supporters will not go to McCain. However, Obama supporters will. The margin of error for the polls were less than 4 percent.
Obama should not give up the nomination. It is just as rightfully his.
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If Barack obama drops out, we will have a republican president for the next 4 years. She doesn't have the charisma or poise to win over america. All she has is her "experience" from being the first lady.
Modern | 04/16/08
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I meant to spell "than" instead of "that". Sorry for the grammer.
alexon96 | 04/16/08
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haha, it's "grammar." and what exactly is a "more majority?"
DonkeyDude | 04/16/08
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Clearly the poll quoted above is old. the switch is now happening the other way round. The movement is happening towards Clinton now and is consistent. I suppose the Obama small town "bitter" and "cling to guns and religion" as a way to deal with their economic woes didn't do him any favour. He is now dying a slow but certain death. The people are now realising that this is a real election after all and they cannot afford to experiment with it.
CRISP | 04/16/08
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If florida and michigan counted clinton would still be behind yes. But did you know that Obama didn't even campaign in florida, nor was his name on the ballot for michigan?
theyoungdem | 04/16/08
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It wasnt, but people were allowed to vote undecided and the undecided ballot was for every candidate that didn't have their name on it. That means that if Michigan will be counted, Obama would get all of the Undecided vote. BOTH candidates did not campaign in Florida. Hillary Clinton won there by a lot of more votes than Obama. Obama doesn't want Michigan and Florida to count because then he will have a smaller chance of getting the nomination. Every vote should count, that is why Hillary Clinton wants Michigan and Florida to count. It is the United States of America Democratic Presidential Race. Michigan and FLorida are part of the US, so their votes should be count.
alexon96 | 04/16/08
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"God's Son" whatever that means, maybe you should have just called yourself NaS. I am shocked at your narrow approach to just spelling and grammer on a debate forum, I suppose you have no substance to add onto this debate or any other. To claim that Sen Clinton's supporters cannot speak English is an insult to millions of Americans and those around the world. There is a difference between the spoken and written word and that should not be any of your concern unless you are advancing this "ELITIST" tendency developing in some quarters. The next thing you will say is that all of us who support Sen Clinton and cannot "speak Engling" are "BITTER".
CRISP | 04/19/08
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Please keep it clean. Bad words will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.
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Alexon96, first of all, please type your one sentence correctly, using some semblance of grammar. Has anybody ever noticed that the Hillary supporters on this forum cannot speak English? Aside from the falsity of your conclusory point, you must factor Project Chaos' effects into your "analysis."
God's Son | 04/15/08
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