The Face Off ended in a tie.
The Face Off ended in a tie.
Coulter
Face Offs: 21
Wins: 5
Losses: 13
Ties: 3
, TX
All Face Offs
6
Votes
Donkey
Face Offs: 30
Wins: 22
Losses: 6
Ties: 2
Los Angeles, CA
All Face Offs
6
Votes

ADVERTISING AND MARKETING PLAYED A HUUUUGE ROLE FOR OBAMA IN PA. HAD HE NOT SPENT THAT MUCH MONEY ON TV IT'D BE DISASTROUS FOR HIS CAMP.


Election 08 is undoubtedly a historical one in all respects. The kind of fundraising we've seen by the candidates has never been seen before and clearly the purpose of those funds is to purchase trust of voters through advertising.

Hillary's biggest defence is that she was outspent by Barrack in PA 3:1 and in other primaries before that. It is a fact. My understanding of this ratio is that for every advert by Hillary, there were three of Obama???s. That does not come free. That costs a lot of advertising money.

Image is everything in this game. Barrack was an unknown two years ago. Today we have one of the most popular politicians in America. He can give credit to the media, in particular advertising. He has spent a lot of money building his image through marketing.

No one can doubt the power of advertising to sell products and creating markets. That is exactly how these candidates have done in the past. They present themselves as products and entice us to buy into their vision and positions.


Fundraising undoubtedly plays an enormous role in every election. Candidates must raise money so they can afford, among other things, ad time in increasingly expensive markets.

Your point seems to pretend that Hillary has not spent ungodly sums herself on advertising - fear-mongering attack ads, no less. You also seem to be bothered that he outspent her (while citing dubious stats). You ignore, however, several important factors:

- Obama's ability to raise the record money to fund these ads in and of itself suggests he already has enormous appeal. Ads in PA did not create his allure. Far from it.

- After more than a year of campaigning, over 20 debates, innumerable articles and magazine covers devoted to the candidates, and hundreds of millions spent by them in this campaign, it is fair to say many people have already made up their minds about Obama and HRC. Well, at least it's as fair as your conclusory statement that it'd have been horrible for him if he didn't outspend her.

- He fared 10% better in the voting than polls predicted 2 weeks ago. You claim it's because of the lame ads they put out, but consider: every state he campaigns in, the polls improve. People love him!


I will stick to the topic which basically narrows the whole issue to PA. Hillary had a 30 point lead in PA in January. Its a state in which she enjoys a lot of support from different demographical groups. She has strong roots in that state. All indication were that Hillary was going to sustain that lead. How does someone chip into that lead by over 20 points. Infact, polls were already giving her 5 or less points win which would have thrown her campain down the drain. How did Obama pull that off, MONEY=ADVERTISING. I think people there didn't know much about Obama and had perceptions about him. Hillary was also feeding them fear and lies about the guy. I'm aruging that Obama was saved by Advertising and Marketing in PA. Had Clinton sustained her 30 point lead, It would have been chaotic for Obama camp.

The advertising platforms helped him to articulate he position, clear the lies and position himself as a unifier and an agent of change and hope.

Nothing new obviously about all the above, then why do people switch from Hillary to Barrack. Repeated messaging tends to influence peoples' decision making and because he had as much money at his disposal, he managed.


The facts you cite are that Hillary had a commanding lead, and that that lead dissipated over the period of time during which Obama was actively campaigning in PA.

Your point in this argument is twofold:

1) You assume, without support, that his chipping away at this lead was due to advertising. However, he always improves his standings in a given state's polls once he touches ground and starts speaking at rallies. Your point is speculation and conjecture, nothing more.

It is equally likely that her own highly negative campaign tactics turned many voters off. Polls prior to the PA primary revealed that 60% of the country found her to be "dishonest." Remember Bosnia? Her campaign style even caused Bill Richardson to endorse Obama.

Voters also might have voted for the likely winner, for the sake of the party.

2) You speculate (again) that "had he not spent that much money on TV it'd be disastrous for his camp" (all CAPS omitted). Even if there were a concrete, refutable reading of the word "disastrous," I would have to disagree with it. If she had won by the 20% margin that the polls showed only two weeks prior to the primary, he would still have a commanding delegate lead.




?


I always move from the premise that through advertising, one can craft the message clearly without the possibility of misinterpretation. With rallies and public engagements, you rely largely on the analysis of reporters who mostly hold different views.I also think that if we depended on Obama's rallies to get a sense of who is he and what he is about,a lot of people would miss the key message as not even a 1/4 of voters attend those rallies.Again the possibility of those messages coming out of those rallies reaching the targeted audiences depend on the sound bytes of the media and how accurate they are.

The following is my assessment, most people who attend the rallies are people who are already in the bag for Obama (same as Clinton), mostly students from Universities. For him to get new voters he needs to reach out to those people through the media (ads)

I looked at the demographics after the polls closed in PA.Clinton outclassed him on blue collar voters, seniors, and whites. He managed to keep the affluent, educated and black voters (all 3 Obama groups in isolation).

His spending on ads made a lot of difference for him, though others believe its bcoz he went negative


I agree with some of your last argument, but it does not help your overall point. I reiterate my second argument above. You have not demonstrated any causal relationship (not just correlation) between advertising expenditures and his momentum.

In fact, your second-to-last paragraph undercuts your own point. The results show that voters retained their usual demographic split. This doesn't suggest at all that Obama's advertising played a "huuuuge role."

Comments

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Putin

POST- Please stop using all caps to post a topic title, it sounds as though you are shouting.

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Putin

And Obama wasn't unknown two years ago, if you recall the 2004 DNC he had a big spot for a speech.

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Coulter

Noted Pablo. I don't mean to shout. What I meant is that yes he has been a politician for a while and rose to prominance by 2003 but nationaly, most people started getting to know him, what he stands for and his political strength about 2/3 years ago. I must say I kinda like what you guys call me, POST, I know it stands for the full pseudo name, who came up with that. Well done.

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Coulter

Lets get started DonkeyDude. You accepted and haven't posted an argument. Careful, you might just get votes before you post anything, (joking), but it's happened before.

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Flagbutton

I'm not sure if YouTube has it, but you should try to watch the IL senate-race debate between Obama and Alan Keyes from, I think, 2004. Keyes wins the debate, but he had no chance for the election, and everyone knew it.

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Donkey

Time put out a great article on the PA Dem race: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1734643-1,00.html

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Obama

Even though I want to some day school donkeydude in a debate, you have to admit, his debating is very logical and convincing

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Donkey

I appreciate that, youngdem, but I concede that my point wasn't made as well as it could have been. I will be more direct in my second argument.

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Reagan

Shouldn't it be an advantage that the guy can rake in money more than anyone in the history of American politics and spends it on changing the perception about himself? Why is this raised as a problem in this debate. Democrats need someone with that kind of muscle.

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Tancredo

I'm torn, DD is right this is a two part topic 1. did obama's ad spending contribute significantly to his success 2. would it have broken him if he hadn't. point 1 so far seems to go for POST, but point 2 is going towards DD

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Paul

What's this coulter **** point? Obama did spend more money, because more people like him. If he raises more money, what's he supposed to do? Not spend the money?

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Mccain

It is seriously crazy the amount of money Obama has spent before the general election. He isn't even sure he will get the nomination yet.

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