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4Gore vs DonkeyDude

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Face Offs: 30
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THE REASON HILLARY IS STILL RUNNING IS...

4Gore said 05/12, 08:37 AM
Hillary is not stupid. She knows she stands no chance at this point, but she won't cut her losses. The reason she has not bowed out is because she knows that there is more for her in staying than if she quits.

* she is hoping that Obama is going to cause a big fu*k up and she will be there to take over.

* She has a huge debt, which she cannot pay when she is outside the race. The longer she stays in it, the more she can fundraise to pay back that debt.

* She believes that if she stays in the race until the end, she will have performed much better than the previous losers who fell early (this includes the previous presidential elections 2000 and 2004). So she can claim to be the toughest and the only future option should Obama fail to beat McCain.

* She is testing her popularity for future positions like the leader of party or Governorship.

need I say more??

DonkeyDude said 05/12, 05:18 PM
1) You are correct that, in Hillary's mind, there is a chance that some scandal will befall Obama and she will be there to pick up the torch and run with it. But the odds of this happening are slim and, more importantly, the DNC will nominate Obama regardless - both for his fund-raising ability and because of the uproar it would cause to ignore his delegate win.

2) Most of her debt is to herself. She does not need to "pay back that debt," and she and her husband are perfectly capable of settling all of the campaign's debts tomorrow if she drops out today.

3) If Obama loses to McCain, a lot of fingers will be pointed straight at her. Her insatiable thirst for the presidency (and the tactics she's resorted to in pursuit thereof) has indisputably divided the party. Her extremely high negative rating is only going up each day, and being pegged a "sore loser" won't help her in '12.

4) Polls can test popularity just fine, and she doesn't suffer from lack of name recognition. Staying in this race is hurting her popularity and making her even more polarizing of a figure. She doesn't want to return to the Senate, and it's unlikely that she'd see a gov'ship as a great consolation prize.

4Gore said 05/13, 11:09 AM
I struggled to see where exactly do you differ with me, but let me continue with my point anyway.

The other reason Hillary is still in this race is because she committed to ensure that everyone gets the chance to vote. If she continues with her campaign, she then appears as a woman of her word.

She also will say the reason she did not quit is because she wanted even the people from "small towns, who are accused of clinging to guns and religion" have their say.

I don't see how anyone would blame her for Obama's loss. The negative campaigning is over, Obama has time to recuperate from that. If he loses, its his fault.

Hillary is enjoying sympathy from voters at this point. All those who feel that she has been unfairly treated, either because she is a Clinton or because she is a woman are feeling sorry for her. That cannot affect her popularity, it only enhances their respect for her tenacity.

I believe Hillary and Huckabee were just setting the stage for the next election, hence their late exits.

DonkeyDude said 05/13, 03:35 PM
Let's see. I disagreed with you point by point (with the half-exception of your first point), in numbered paragraph format. If you can't figure out how I disagree with you, I don't know how to help you out.

As to your last argument, let me be clear: I DISAGREE (again). "Committed to ensure that everyone gets the chance to vote?" Are you kidding me? She's committed to count as many votes in her favor as possible, but "disenfranchising" the MI/FL voters couldn't be farther from her mind. The MI/FL votes should not count, as per the rules she agreed to beforehand. Do you actually think this megalomaniac would give a rat's **** about those votes if those states went in Obama's favor? If so, you have not been paying attention to her campaign.

Re: blaming her for Obama's loss. Obama has not lost! All signs indicate that he has, at the least, a very good shot in Nov. Certainly a better shot than he had at being the nominee a few months ago... You remind me of a Nader fanatic here.

People do not "respect her tenacity" at this point. There is a fine line between tenacity and her unique blend of pride, vanity and entitlement. You know who's happiest she's still in this race? Rush Limbaugh

4Gore said 05/14, 11:59 AM
Donkey Dude, This is a simple debate. You sound like a Clinton hater. In the history of American politics there has never been a formidable woman candidate that has run such a powerful campaign. She has made history however you look at it.

I think that she is a tenacious woman and she has earned a lot of respect from a lot of people, as well as rebuke from those who believe Obama should be the nominee.

In summary: Hillary has a legacy to protect, leave her future chances open and raise more money to settle her debt, and hoping for a miracle. Those are the reasons she will not quit.

DonkeyDude said 05/14, 02:47 PM
I never claimed this to be anything other than a simple debate, 4Gore. And I do hate Clinton. That ad hominem attack aside, you have done absolutely nothing to counter my points.

Hillary is not protecting her legacy. If anything, her and Bill's negative campaign tactics have only tarnished the Clinton name (especially among blacks and younger voters).

Nor is she attempting to raise more money to pay back debts, as her campaign loses money every day of its operation.

The reason she remains in this race is simple: She had to proclaim that she would take this thing to the finish line, so as not to dissuade her supporters from voting in this tight race. Now that it's essentially pointless, her pride won't let her land the plane.

Because you didn't even attempt to counter my points (which themselves undercut your unsupported points), you haven't carried your burden here.